Joe Rogan Experience #2437 - Rand Paul
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Joe Rogan welcomes Rand Paul to Austin, Texas. Rand Paul mentions growing up in Texas, attending Baylor University where there was no music or dancing, and coming to Austin for live music.
Joe Rogan praises Rand Paul's book Deception: The Great Coverup and his questioning of Anthony Fauci. Rogan highlights Fauci's denial of gain-of-function research despite evidence. Children did not get seriously sick from COVID; no child without health issues died. Children got mild illness. Data from China early on showed this, yet schools closed. Sweden kept schools open and had similar death rates to others, with deaths primarily among older and overweight people.
Argument that kids would infect grandparents didn't hold because everyone got it anyway. Suggestion: Kids recover for two weeks before visiting grandparents, with exceptions for those living together. Early China data showed death rate <3%; initially overestimated due to not counting asymptomatic cases. Fauci denied natural immunity. Quote from Harvard epidemiologist Martin Kulldorff (fired): "We knew about natural immunity from the time of the Athenian plague in 436 BC, and we knew that knowledge until 2020. Then we lost all knowledge of natural immunity. But the good news is in 2025, we're starting to get back that knowledge."
Natural immunity not perfect but protective; second infections milder, no reports of death on second infection. Rogan shares getting COVID twice; second time very mild, just sniffles confirmed by test.
Rogan mentions personal doctor Sanjay Gupta in jest. Favorite clip: Rogan debating Gupta on CNN. Gupta lacked facts; CNN lied about Rogan taking veterinary medicine (ivermectin as "horse dewormer"). Pre-2020, Rogan was normally distrustful of media; 2020 saw intense campaign labeling him conspiracy theorist, COVID/vaccine denier.
Consensus stifles new ideas in medicine. Rand Paul asked Fauci early about high-dose IV steroids (e.g., solumedrol) for severe COVID cases, like used for flesh-eating bacteria (necrotizing fasciitis). Fauci dismissed: "We've tried that." Later, IV steroids reduced ICU mortality by 36% for ventilator patients. Remdesivir ineffective and caused kidney failure.
Fauci's history: Pushed AZT during AIDS crisis, a disaster.
Essential workers (e.g., 296 at Missouri meatpacking plant) got COVID, most survived. Should have told recovered workers: After 2 weeks, return mask-free with immunity. Instead, told them they might get/die from it again. Post-recovery vaccination pushed, like a "blood oath."
Anecdote: 83-year-old woman in Orange County denied hospital admission until vaccinated while having active COVID, against recommendations. Risk of vaccinating soon after infection: Interferes with immune response, increases heart inflammation (myocarditis) in young people.
1986 Reagan-era law removed liability for vaccine injuries. COVID shots unlike prior vaccines. Rand Paul's dad voted against liability protection. 1976 swine flu vaccine: More deaths from vaccine (e.g., Guillain-Barré syndrome) than from swine flu, which killed no one despite hype.
Vaccines have benefits but use risk-benefit analysis per individual. COVID had extreme age differential: Primarily old people and those with comorbidities/obesity.
Pandemic response like a playbook; deviate and get attacked as having "blood on your hands." Vaccine belief like religion; non-believers demonized, unpatriotic without masks.
Reporters lectured maskless Rand Paul post-recovery. 2003 SARS outbreak: T-cells and immunity persisted 17 years later. Anecdote: 102-year-old woman survived COVID; tested positive for Spanish flu antibodies 100 years after infection at 6 months old.
In Senate, Sherrod Brown yelled at Paul for no mask post-recovery. Paul volunteered in hospital post-COVID (March 2020) due to immunity, helping rotate ventilator patients.
Flutists with masks cut out for flutes. Airplane peanuts: Eat faster, mask between bites. Some flight attendants supportive, passed notes thanking Paul; others enforced rules.
Marty Makary's book Blind Spots on peanut allergies: Prevent by giving kids peanut butter early (now recommended at 3 months by American Pediatric Association, after prior decade-long avoidance).
AAP worst on vaccine "mythology and religiosity"; blind devotion without risk-benefit. Pulled first rotavirus vaccine due to intussusception. Vaccines require individualized discussion of side effects/disease.
No COVID vaccine for children: Myocarditis risk > disease risk. Early benefit for old/overweight in reducing hospitalization/death, but virus less dangerous now, more population immunity. Paul pushing CDC for new study: 1000 over-65 vaccinated vs. 1000 not; check current reduction in hospitalization/death.
No recent COVID deaths/hospitalizations; variants milder.
[Ad for AG1 health drink: 75+ vitamins/minerals/probiotics; one scoop daily.]
No talk of vitamin supplementation, IV vitamins. Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine: Government refused studies. Hard to prove in low-risk groups (e.g., under-50); need 10,000 per arm. Some international studies positive; Fauci shut down U.S. ones.
Fauci's longevity like J. Edgar Hoover (abused civil liberties). Pre-2020 pandemic simulations (Bill Gates-funded) never recommended public masks. Fauci publicly advised against masks early.
Email: Birx asked Fauci about mask for conference; he replied no evidence for respiratory viruses.
Masks ineffective: Cloth pores > virus size; surgical have gaps; N95 only if single-use in hospital.
Fauci's cloth masks (Nationals, BLM) dangerous for vulnerable: Gave false safety, increased risk (e.g., 75yo caring for infected wife).
Early advice good for vulnerable: Avoid crowds. Kids to school. Virus spread everywhere regardless; no respiratory virus ever stopped by vaccine (flu vaccine doesn't either).
They lie every year about flu vaccine efficacy, claiming crossover effects that are inflated. Rand Paul is pushing CDC to study it objectively with large numbers to determine odds of flu vaccine working next year. Previously recommended for over 50 or 65 if at risk; now they want everybody to take it. Probably better for children without immunodeficiency to get vaccines and develop immunity over time.
Vaccine committee argues recommendations are science, not profit, but vigorously opposes revealing big pharma money. Paul proposes: if on vaccine committee recommending every child get COVID vaccine, must release royalties from big pharma. Anthony Fauci in committee said law doesn't require it. Paul has bill with all Republicans and most Democrats agreeing; would require government scientists getting royalties from Pfizer or big companies to list on form and recuse from voting.
Doctors financially incentivized for vaccines should be unethical. Changed pharma gifts to doctors 10 years ago, but payments for choosing certain things evade gift ban. Giving children COVID vaccine is malpractice. Mary Talley Bowden has small practice in strip mall outside Houston; if vaccinated everyone, compensated $1.5 million. Vaccines are exception to kickback prevention laws. Congress looked at legislation to fix but no good answer yet.
Amazing how many in public not skeptical, argue vaccines save lives without research or understanding compensation history and immunity. In book, George Washington story shows not anti-vaccine: smallpox vaccine amazing. Washington's day used live vaccine: pus from recovering smallpox scab stabbed into arm. Death rate from smallpox one in three; 20,000 died in Boston outbreaks. People chose it voluntarily. Martha Washington couldn't visit war camps until inoculated for smallpox (more deaths from disease than bullets). Called inoculation, not vaccine, as getting live disease. Washington had smallpox at 15 in Barbados, understood immunity known for thousands of years. Fauci said we don't know, but nobody got worse COVID second time.
Biden got bizarre pardon back to 2014 for unaccused, unconvicted crimes. Paul sent criminal referrals for Fauci to Merrick Garland twice for lying to Congress (felony), ignored. Working with Bobby Kennedy who provided info. Fauci emails: told Francis Collins read and destroy it. Executive branch must keep communications on government devices. New criminal referral to Trump's AG. Reasons: shouldn't get away with lying/destroying records; challenge pardon validity (retrospective 10 years without mentioning crime).
In conversation, Fauci parsed words denying gain-of-function at Wuhan lab. Everyone knew he was lying. Evidence: February 1, 2020 group text chain of virologists privately saying lab origin, publicly denying. Fauci admitted Wuhan doing gain-of-function, dangerous, possible because we fund them (via EcoHealth intermediary, never admitted directly). Experiments were gain-of-function. Scientific community and left defend him; made partisan. Got million-dollar prize from nonprofit while government employee. Post-government: 24/7 limo service and security like president (Trump ended it).
Fauci made $450,000/year (more than president), wife Christine Grady (bioethics chief at NIH) $250,000; combined $700,000. Against government bureaucrats paid that much; term limits needed, not 40 years stacking deck. Francis Collins email to Fauci: "Take them down" (Jay Bhattacharya, Martin Kulldorff, Oxford epidemiologist). Paul asks scientists: would you send note to take down fellow scientist? Sounds like mafia, not objective science.
Unclear Fauci's full royalties from COVID vaccine (claimed $25 some years, more others). Open the Books/Open Secrets: 1,500 scientists got $1.5 billion in royalties via FOIA. Not forbidding, but if on committee voting for drug from company they got money from, must disclose. Biden NIH appointee (never approved) had $231 million Pfizer research grants; hard to be objective.
Bobby Kennedy removing pro-vaccine zealots; new people declare no conflicts verbally before voting (improvement). Want full public disclosure for oversight.
Calmer now vs. hysteria. Establishment senators pushed Fauci for press conferences as Trump spoke off-cuff. Trump gave Fauci Presidential Medal of Honor leaving office (inexplicable). Many pro-vaccine opponents still in government/media. Paul called names but right on most: masks (most don't work; N95 loses charge after 4 hours moisture, contaminated if touched; doctors discard, don't reuse), natural immunity, 6-foot rule.
Six feet opposite of safe advice. Virus travels 30-40 feet (e.g., choir practice 6 feet apart unsafe for 85-year-old; they should stay home). Encouraged crowded rooms. Cloth masks don't work. Unsafe advice on helping family with cloth mask. Natural immunity works. Fauci lacked humility; should give advice, not mandates, allow second opinions.
Senate doctor recommended three COVID vaccines for 15-16 year old pages. Paul fought on floor for unanimous consent to opt out. Myocarditis risk increases with doses (less after one, more after second/third). Death rate for healthy 16-year-old essentially zero. CNN hid terminal cancer in child COVID deaths to scare public, support teachers union school closures.
US and New Zealand only countries allowing pharma drug ads. Staggering number on MSNBC/CNN; calm voice lists horrific side effects for rare diseases (5,000 patients nationwide). Ads shape news/pundits to not criticize pharma more than direct sales. No coverage of horrific side effects despite listings (death, paralysis, stroke, blood clots, explosive bloody diarrhea, memory loss, suicidal ideation).
Protect pharma (e.g., Ambien) but outlaw hemp products; recently banned all hemp (Texas has many), fighting last two months, banned in one year via Mitch McConnell amendment on government shutdown reopening bill. McConnell powerful: raised hundreds of millions, passed to senators, they owe him. Paul forced amendment; internet criticized for gumming up works.
Rand Paul brought forward an amendment on hemp, receiving 20+ votes out of 70. They voted to set a THC limit, making all plants and seeds illegal now. There's a real industry of farmers growing hemp. Who are we to tell someone who can't sleep that Ambien is better than a hemp gummy? Or a veteran with anxiety or PTSD that Percocet or psychotropic drugs are better than hemp?
Alcohol lobby and cannabis lobby involved. Cannabis people hate hemp people. Cannabis industry developed state by state; can't sell marijuana products across state lines (e.g., Colorado to Kentucky). Hemp legalized nationally, sold across state lines via mail until this law. Big companies sell hemp gummies. McConnell saw it as unintended consequence; some growth was, but bad products existed. Hemp industry agreed to regulate: avoid 100mg gummies, prefer 5mg in drinks or gummies.
Rand Paul supports freedom to take it, hasn't tried it himself but sleeps well. People say one THC drink is like drinking a beer or less.
Cannabis businesses in legal states oppose national legalization because it would allow mail-order competition. Without national cannabis legalization, hemp competes. Even states with legal adult use can't transfer across state lines.
Hemp means CBD and THC (CBD has trace THC, hemp gummies and drinks have ~5mg THC). McConnell language sets limit at 0.4mg THC per serving, too low to have effect; THC provides the effect. CBD oil might still be used, but effect likely from THC. CBD alone (no THC) has benefits, e.g., balm for arthritis.
Wife's mom uses CBD with THC for arthritis and aches; more effective than CBD alone.
Supports freedom for people to decide. Parents of children with 100 seizures/day add CBD oil with THC, slowing seizures. Friend's child with severe autism and seizures stopped only by CBD with THC.
In 2007 during Romney's presidential run, supporter of Paul's dad approached Romney: person in wheelchair with MS asked if Romney favored making illegal their nighttime marijuana for sleep. Romney said, "I sure would."
What kind of person is so presumptuous to deem it immoral vs. antipsychotics or narcotics from pharma? Ignorance from never consuming it. Many little old ladies take CBD with THC for aches and sleep.
Joke on opponents like McConnell (older than dirt): watched Reefer Madness in 1937, irrational fear.
Not advocating 15-year-olds smoking marijuana after school; side effects on developing brain. Same for alcohol. For personal choice for adults.
Reefer Madness story: William Randolph Hearst behind craze. 1930s decorticator machine made hemp processing efficient (Popular Science: "hemp, the new billion dollar crop"). Hearst owned publications and paper mills using forests; hemp better for paper. Hearst printed fake stories: blacks/Mexicans on "marijuana" (originally wild Mexican tobacco name) raping white women.
Paleo Valley: 100% grass-fed beef sticks, no junk, fermented, shelf-stable, gut-friendly. Sold 55M. 20% off first order at paleovalley.com/rogan code rogan.
Story of government: pretty names hide truths. Patriot Act. Banking regs protect poor but favor big banks, gobble up small/local banks via compliance costs.
Federal Reserve pays interest to big banks on reserves: $3T there, $187B interest last year (mostly NY banks). Previously to Treasury, offsetting debt (now 10% worse). Pre-2010, no interest on reserves. Incentivizes leaving money at Fed (4%) vs. lending to businesses. Keeps rates high.
Trump wants lower rates; one way: stop Fed paying interest to big banks. Paul trying to meet Bessent (held up Treasury appointee), started as $30B system, now $3T.
Trump good on rescheduling marijuana from Schedule 1 to 3 (still illegal without prescription). Schedule 1 blocked research (safes, guards). State-by-state allowed observation; some backtracked over DUI testing issues (acute intoxication hard to test; maybe blood test for edibles, breath uncertain).
Guy in California studies exhaled contents for cancer markers (e.g., pancreatic; Sen. Ben Sasse has stage 4).
Kentucky: no adult use, just legalized medical (state-only: physicians prescribe, farmers grow; hinders via climate/export limits).
State legalization enables cartels. John Norris (game warden CA): found cartel illegal grows in parks/forests after CA made illegal grow misdemeanor. Heavily armed operations; his group tactical (Belgian Malinois, vests, shootouts). 90% marijuana sold in illegal states grown in CA with illegal pesticides/herbicides causing poisonings.
Prohibition props cartels like alcohol prohibition propped mob/moonshiners. Illegal products more dangerous (unregulated), more youth access (no ID checks).
Legal adult use with rules better. McConnell tells Kentuckians Rand Paul wants kids on hemp (false; KY state law 21+ regulates amount). His law overturns state regs, no federal age limit. Texas legislature passed ban, Abbott vetoed (limbo).
National law effective one year from passage (~November, so Nov 2025); $2B industry, jobs bust. Users: grandmothers, mothers for sleep/aches. Paul introducing bills to extend deadline, defer to state regs if regulated.
Bizarre being rational in government; many never worked outside, don't know real life (no check-writing). Advise interns: get real career first (Paul physician 20 years). Need experience to govern; politics needs right time/place/luck.
Bush Sr. out of touch: didn't know grocery scanners.
Blowing up boats off Venezuela (drug-running accused, no names/evidence). Sept 2nd, two shipwrecked clinging to wreckage blown up. Republicans: no presumption of innocence (always applied at sea; stop/search first, escalate if flee/shoot). 1/4 boarded boats off Miami/CA have no drugs. Pro-life colleagues ignore these poor Venezuelan/Colombian lives (cocaine to Europe/Caribbean islands, not US; boats can't reach 2000 miles).
Against laws of war/justice/military code to kill shipwrecked.
Theories: upset cartel at Maduro to oust him. Pretense for arresting Maduro (released Honduras ex-Pres. Hernandez 40yr US sentence same time). No fentanyl from Venezuela (zero). If serious, attack Mexico (they want to bomb there too).
Paul opposes; no love for Maduro/socialism (book The Case Against Socialism; 16yo girl scavenging dumpsters). But no unilateral snatches (e.g., why not Lula Brazil?). Interventions don't usually work.
Trump was against regime change in Iraq and Libya, where it didn't work well. Rand Paul questions why there's interest in Venezuela. Technical interruption joked as NSA spying.
Biden administration placed a $20-22 million bounty on Maduro due to lack of free elections, authoritarian government, and suffering people. Noble to want better government and freedom, but many autocratic countries exist where intervention could backfire. Venezuelans may initially welcome Maduro's removal but resent US control of oil if money goes to socialist government rather than people. Maduro's second-in-command, sharing his beliefs, remains and may accept US terms on oil confiscation and sales, leading to austerity without vibrant economy. People could be as upset in six months with essentially the same government.
Primary reason for intervention: Russia and China interest in Venezuela's oil. China met with Maduro the day he was kidnapped; gets 4% of its oil from there. Best way to counter China in South America is trade cooperation, not war. Threatening to bomb Colombia is bad; US buys coffee and bananas from there, should maintain trade.
Paul texted Trump Monday; ambassador said Colombia's president sought call for months. Trump agreed immediately. Paul disagreed with bombing boats and Maduro but not unhappy with result; wants to prevent chaos spreading to Colombia, which cooperates on drug trade. Trump called Colombia's president, setting stage for less problems. Shift from campaign regime change talk due to influences like Lindsey Graham, whom Paul jokingly says shouldn't enter White House. Paul fights only when attacked, not to fix every global problem amid $2 trillion deficit. Interventions often worsen situations. This aligns with his dad's philosophy.
Paul gets briefings on boats; asks if they carry arms, as killing unarmed people matters. Briefers claim boats carry arms, drugs, and invade with drugs. Geographically distant small boats don't bring drugs to US; can't make war by hitting with drugs. Distinction between crime and war. If speedboat reached Miami, offloaded to U-Haul, US wouldn't use grenade launchers but stop and search. Coast Guard still stops dozens of boats; bombings target those linked to terrorists or Tren de Aragua. Hard to know with certainty.
Bombings driven by desire for regime change; Rubio wanted it for 15 years, influences Trump. Selling use of power for good appeals. If freedom results, seen as right; uncertain if people accept socialist government or hold free elections. Paul pushes back against invading Greenland, Cuba, Colombia. Faces flak from president's supporters and internet mob to quiet down. Healthy criticism needed even for liked leaders. Cartels and drugs secondary; need drug predicate to frame as not war but arrest warrant, avoiding war declaration.
Indictment includes drugs and conspiring to possess machine guns. Absurd, as leaders worldwide have security with machine guns; US does too. Legal in Texas with permit; machine gun fests exist. Argument: okay to bomb Caracas as arrest warrant enforcement, not war. Gamesmanship.
Concern over Russia/China ramping oil production. Venezuela's oil shows socialism's failure: 30-year-old rotting equipment, 1 million barrels/day despite more reserves than Saudi Arabia, due to incompetence from Marxism-trained managers without profit incentives. Capitalism uses supply/demand/pricing; Venezuela controls equipment prices/ownership.
Venezuela's oil mostly heavy crude, harder to extract like asphalt requiring chemicals, unlike Saudi Arabia. Still, socialist system prevents maximum efficiency.
Price controls cause shortages: too low, manufacturers withhold; too high, black markets. Polish story under Iron Curtain: shopper asks if store lacks eggs; owner says no, they lack toilet paper—store across street lacks eggs. Shortages ubiquitous. Prices must fluctuate for allocation.
Banning credit card rates above 10% ignores risk, desperation; 30% teaches planning, deters repeat borrowing. Market bears it; high rates for poor planners. Teach budgeting in high school/college. Fixed 10% encourages endless borrowing.
Interest rates signal: low rates 2000-2007 (2%) fueled housing boom/crash. Rising rates to 4-5% slow economy naturally, preventing devastating crashes.
Freedom issue: banning sales to Blackstone steals 5% premium from sellers. Corporatization lowers costs (e.g., realtor fees from 6% to 3%). Home prices rose due to dollar devaluation from printing/debt, not corporations. Fear of corporations owning all homes, forcing perpetual renting: study needed; they'll sell for profit, not hold forever. Examples: Goldman Sachs, Berkshire Hathaway own homes. If 10,000 homes, direct sales via website reduce costs. Apartment market booms as kids stay longer; corporations own those too.
Rent control ruins apartments (broken, holes at $300/month vs. $3,000 needed for upkeep), causes shortages. Needs big investors for new builds, deterred by controls. Joseph Schumpeter: miracle of capitalism is factory girl buying silk stockings, not just queen. Products start expensive for rich (1970s $300 calculator), prices fall via mass production (now free realtor calculators). Tesla: expensive first, prices drop. Forbid high prices, no innovation/distribution.
Cell phones exemplify.
Both parties guilty of debt/spending. Deal: Warhawks (Lindsey Graham) get military funds, left (Chris Murphy, Booker) get welfare; both grow. Budget vote is 1/3 spending ($2 trillion, matches deficit); 2/3 mandatory on autopilot.
Penny Plan: 1% across-the-board cuts yearly on all (including mandatory), balancing in 5 years. Compromise: tell Ron Wyden 1% welfare cut if Republicans cut 1% military. Reverse logrolling. Not Sesame Street cuts alone; 6% across everything balances now. Try message: everybody
Comes to Washington wants money. Usually things you can have sympathy for. One week they come and wear the purple ribbons for Alzheimer's disease. Have family members with Alzheimer's and great deal of sympathy, but we're two trillion short. Say to them: we're a rich country and should spend some money on Alzheimer's research, but you got a hundred million last year. Would it be okay if I only vote for 94 million for you next year? When put that way, they're usually in there with tears running down their face talking about their mom and grandmother with Alzheimer's and worried they're going to get it. To a person, they look around the table and say, "That sounds kind of fair. Everybody has to take a hit, right? 94%."
Almost everything like food stamps. People say people are going to starve without food stamps. Why don't we just get rid of Coca-Cola and Pepsi? No sugar drinks on food stamps. That's 10% of food stamps. That'd be a 10% cut. No one's going to starve.
Would you spend less or just limit the purchasing to non-sugar drinks?
We'll probably be lucky just to limit the purchase, but would spend less. To spend less, give them less money: not only can't buy sugary drinks, but less money to buy healthy food, which is more expensive. If budget is $100 million and next year $94 million, can't buy Coca-Cola, Pepsi, sugar drinks. They spend about 10% of dollars on these sugar drinks. They have to make decisions with a little bit less. Even for food stamps, strong argument people will be hungry, but hunger is not a problem in our country. Problem is too much food. No one starving. Food everywhere.
Right. But it's not too much food. It's non-nutritious food. Not even food. Things you eat that have no nutrition. Like Coca-Cola, candy, cookies.
You can get a bag of candy on food stamps. Been talking about this for years. Had a Democrat senator friend walking down the hall, told him, he said sounds reasonable but doesn't want to reduce dollars. Compromise is Democrats never vote to reduce dollars. Staff said, "I thought you were a libertarian for choice." Response: "I am with your money. Taxpayer money. We don't let you buy alcohol." Sugar drinks as bad as alcohol.
It's close in terms of health consequences: diabetes, obesity, co-morbidities.
Healthy food more expensive sometimes, like at Whole Foods. But head of lettuce not expensive. Beans not expensive, healthier. Have to teach people how to cook.
Would have old concept of home economics in schools. Teach from book by Charles Murray called Coming Apart. Compared rich and poor: two main statistics putting you in rich or poor group: having kids before married and education.
Charles Murray, guy with controversial ideas about race and IQ?
Yep, but this wasn't racial. Based on those two categories. Teach in home economics: not morality, not that it's evil to have sex. Statistics overwhelming: if you have kids before married, you'll be poor. Why not teach that? Also teach how to go to grocery store, what to buy, how to prepare it. For obese people, Medicaid pays gazillions for diabetes. Pay for dietary training: go to grocery store with people, show crap they're putting in cart.
Sounds like another government program.
Wouldn't spend more money. Make part of curriculum. Reality: changing behavior takes radical shift of perceptions, very difficult. Can't just teach spaghetti and meatballs. People not dumb, but set in ways. If give 94% of food stamps, they'll be smart within a week, make decisions.
Argue against: people set in ways, decades of patterns, not shifted by policy change.
What about people changing lifestyle since two people at McDonald's costs 20 bucks? Burger, drink, fries 20 bucks for two. Thousands eating less out, at home more. McDonald's terrible for you too. Can't teach wiser decisions, but encourage via education, financial incentive. Ban foods: take off formulary. WIC (women, infants, children) for pregnancy food only has healthy food, no Coca-Cola. But can use SNAP + WIC for sugar drinks, chips, candy, Ding-Dongs. No-brainer, not food. No Democrat signs on. Bill doesn't reduce money. Voters want it, but Democrats held prisoner by voters who feel entitled.
Do it to make them healthier. Goal not more Medicaid, but less people on it. Economy where 5-6% can't take care of themselves. Health care almost everyone can afford except small percentage like kidney disease on dialysis (expensive, almost all on Medicaid). 80% adult-onset diabetes curable by weight loss.
Should allow whatever with own money, but government assistance: limit to healthy food. Shouldn't pay for you to kill yourself, like no cigarettes, alcohol.
Bobby Kennedy changing this, establishment hates him. If he treats sugar as bad food added to cereals, transforms health.
When kid, didn't think sugar bad, just gave cavities. Threw sugar on cereal, in coffee. Government responsible for much food: no sugar drinks in high schools. Machines everywhere, say get money for football field. Put non-sugar drinks if want advertising.
If kid works corner store $7-15/hour, uses to buy Coca-Cola and Ring Dings, who cares?
Not giving money. Supposed to help get back on feet. Big believer in social safety nets: family was poor, on welfare/food stamps, worked out, did well in high school. Valuable for downtrodden in wealthy country. Abject poverty/starvation abhorrent. But people get dependent, generations on welfare. Unhealthy food keeps unmotivated, no energy. Healthier people have vibrancy, energy to pursue dreams. Morbidly obese from sugar/garbage lacks energy. Need tough love, temporary, get to another place. Can't enable bad choices.
Food stamps started for single mothers with many kids who can't work. Once kids there, have to feed. Didn't give to able-bodied 21-year-old men in college or out of high school. They need to work, jobs everywhere. Able-bodied on programs: very temporary if at all. All programs re-evaluated. In 1993 Bowling Green, Kentucky, local welfare head required people prove working/looking for work. Able-bodied back in six weeks: here's newspaper, job, go tomorrow. Gotten away from that. Propose it, accused of hating poor. Want them rich. Fallacy: people not static rich/poor. 20% bottom 20% make top 20%. 60% making million this year not next. Great income mobility. Otherwise lose hope. In poor area, single mom, told never going anywhere: reaction steal/sell drugs. Message: never better time to be alive. Less judgment on skin color, sexuality, religion than ever. Incredible country. Do manual job, earn to start small business. High school decent student, not rocket scientist: HVAC technical school. 100 in class recently, tuition paid, job on completion. HVAC worker: 80-100k/year. Own company: richest in town.
Good argument with automation/AI: takes jobs people go to school for, irrelevant degrees. Trades like carpenter, plumber always valuable. AI may diagnose, but carry/install, open walls. Talk to people daily scaring no jobs. Hope not true. If happens, secret societies/speakeasies: knock door, password, build stuff, grout bricks, nail wood. Secret work, people want to work. Government makes illegal, dystopian.
Have you talked to Elon?
Yep. Thinks need universal basic income, actually universal high income: AI creates so much wealth, no need to work. Question: essential to care for self via work? Find meaning outside? Or play video games?
Elon smarter/richer, don't discount, but hope wrong. Work necessary, problems from not working. Mandate work for welfare: able-bodied must work, not a penny otherwise. Work is reward, not punishment. Never unhappy at work, done hard jobs: roofed houses, lawns. Sweated off 5-10 lbs, felt great.
You and I different: bad jobs motivated never do again, find non-laborer thing.
Didn't want forever. Notice don't sweat much now. Those jobs teach don't want forever.
Hope not preach no work from AI: despairing dystopian future. Respect Elon, but historically every automation led to more jobs. First time it takes jobs. Feared automated loom: weavers out. Instead make/fix machines. Clothing prices down: used to one wardrobe, now dozens cheap at Target/Walmart. Electricity: candlestick makers rioted, Luddites broke looms. Always more jobs, progress. No good example automation lowers overall employment. Seven billion people, less poverty on the
Rand Paul argues that historically, no invention or automation has led to fewer jobs; all have created more jobs and prosperity. AI critics claim it will bring prosperity but require work for mental well-being, as people cannot just sit around. Joe Rogan questions finding meaning without work for money, suggesting art, learning music, or other pursuits. Paul agrees AI will provide more leisure time. He cites World Bank statistics: in 1820, 98% of people lived on less than $2 a day (constant dollars); today globally, less than 10% do. Only royalty avoided poverty then; obesity was only among royalty. Regular people lacked abundance of food and time, leading to shorter stature due to fewer calories and less protein.
With more leisure time from AI, idle brains will generate new ideas. Art may become work, with everyone as artists. Niche markets persist despite automation: organic farms without pesticides, cattle without antibiotics or vaccines, labor-intensive but charging more. Similarly, people may prefer human-made art over AI. Paul's wife Kelly wrote a children's book; AI art was good but she chose a human artist for real meaning and connection.
Rogan agrees human art, music, and films will retain value. He mentions Bradley Cooper discussing artists' fears of digital actors, computer-generated AI prompts for films, and AI-written scripts.
Paul shares a Dilbert cartoon: a woman worries robots will leave her son jobless; Dilbert replies he's met her son and he could be replaced by a hammer. Fears of automation persist, but innovation creates technical and other jobs. Paul is optimistic; technology has not destroyed jobs historically. Without the industrial revolution, 98% would still live on $2 a day.
Rogan shifts to Minnesota fraud: uncovering massive fraud in daycares, with $35 million allegedly donated to Democrats last year. Paul calls it extraordinary. Rogan notes a cartoon of Minnesota fraud as the iceberg tip, with California beneath. California spent $24 billion on homelessness without accounting for it, and the problem worsened.
Paul opposes refugees getting welfare; his bill says church sponsors must support them, not taxpayers. Many came on special visas (Somalis due to perpetual war and famine). Fact-checks (Yahoo News, Snopes) claim no evidence daycares donated millions, calling it viral misinformation from small businesses. Paul and Rogan distrust fact-checks; fraud cover-ups debunk stories. Real amount missing unknown.
Paul advocates no welfare for newcomers; sponsors handle support. Charities sign refugees up for welfare immediately. AI search confirms no $35M donations, but Rogan notes it depends on fraud scale vs. corporate donors.
Paul debated McCain: interpreters from Afghanistan/Iraq should stay as founding fathers, not flee, leaving jihadists in charge. Taliban regained power partly because 80,000 skilled English-speakers left. Rogan counters many would die without protection; they worked with Americans. Paul compares to 1812 British attack: fight for your country. No need for 80,000 from Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia; legal immigrants ineligible for welfare 5 years, but refugees get it immediately, including Medicare.
Fraud involved learning centers, autism diagnoses/centers with money flowing. Not faulting individuals exploiting loopholes, especially from war-torn countries following others. Paul proposes auditing entire system nationwide. Suspects Chinese/Russian hackers stole millions; Somalis sent hundreds of millions overseas. Reports cite $700 million over two years, flagged by TSA at Minneapolis-St. Paul when over $10,000 cash requires declaration—voluntarily checked.
Perplexity confirms TSA flagged nearly $700 million in cash leaving. Just the News reported it from TSA forms. John Solomon credible. Insane gall: steal welfare, declare $20 million outbound openly for decades. Mass Somali immigration timing questioned. Suggest auditing all U.S. airports for similar outflows.
Minnesota: Somalis vs. Hmong. Hmong have lower welfare, higher graduation, lower Medicaid. Somalia linked to piracy (Captain Phillips movie). Originally "People's Coast Guard" responding to European toxic waste dumping killing fish, evolved to kidnapping for ransom.
Paul cites Milton Friedman on Sweden: Swedes succeed due to work ethic, not socialism—evident in Minnesota immigrants in top 1%. Northern Scandinavian ethic transmitted generationally. Hmong/Swedes not war refugees but immigrants seeking better life. Examples: Vietnamese (one survived island with one rice cup/year, lost 60 pounds; opened transmission business; kids: 3 doctors, vet, pharmacist). Nigerians: average income exceeds white average despite dark skin countering racism claims.
Nigerians ingenious, hard workers; select immigrants for skills, not quotas (e.g., 50,000 Somalis). Sponsor one-by-one, no welfare; sponsors cover struggles.
Full Minnesota audit will reveal outright fraud: ghost learning centers, food kitchens feeding no one. $700 million Somali outflow real, voluntarily declared. Expect organized Russian/Chinese gangs, COVID hackers, Americans stealing. Generosity enables fraud; less money means more scrutiny (like Pentagon). Giving more invites more theft.
Paul's bill: audit all welfare/cash transfers nationwide. Predicts zero Democrat votes; framed as cruel to poor, though it targets thieves so more reaches needy. Debate demagogued.
Rogan on wide-open border last four years: encouraged entry, helped crossing, gave EBT cards, cell phones. Paul: Democrats know most will vote Democrat (2/3), power politics not humanity. Many suffer sex trafficking. Trump fixed border first three months by force of personality, reducing by 98% before funding, via relocation.
Before any money was spent, Trump fixed the border problem. Democrats wanted the problem to exist for more voters. They moved people to swing states. Census counts human beings, not citizens, giving more congressional seats. California has a couple congressional seats based on illegal aliens. About 750,000 people per congressional district, so one or two districts in California shouldn't be allotted.
People here illegally, even if encouraged, remain illegal. Rand Paul's moderate proposal: for those here working lawfully, passing background check, give no welfare, no citizenship, no voting, but allow work without arrest.
No citizenship but potential path to citizenship for those who came illegally. Current law: go back and never get in. Compromise: no citizenship for you, but your kids born here get it. New 8 million that came last year, some need to go back, especially criminals. Trump administration sent back many criminals.
Joe Rogan notes they've arrested citizens mistaken for illegal aliens, sent back people here most of their lives, came as infants without birth certificates or ID.
See, the compromise I'm offering is different than anybody's ever talked about. Everybody thinks the compromise has to include voting and citizenship. If in Texas we gave amnesty and let a couple million people vote immediately Texas becomes Democrat for the next 20 years. So that's what it's all about. It's about voting.
Problem with census counting non-citizens for congressional seats, encouraging more illegals. Changing law requires 60 votes in Senate, needing seven Democrats. Gives those people Medicaid, food stamps, putting them on your side.
Base society on work: wall around welfare system, no welfare for refugees or immigrants, legal or illegal. Selects for workers. Best Americans just got here with good work ethic: work fields, pick tomatoes, clean fish, chicken houses, dirty jobs done by immigrants. They came with ambition at great risk.
Work program: sign up, pass background check.
For guy here 20 years, from laborer to carpenter, illegal: trade-off no citizenship, kids get it.
Survey 1,000 illegal Texans: accept no voting in lifetime, kids vote if born here, in exchange for no deportation fear (car accident, sent back)? 80% would take work without citizenship. Democrats want citizenship for voting, not work.
Humane on work, need workers, people would accept without leaving and coming back. They broke law coming here, not supposed to vote now.
Concerning: some illegals are voting. California passed no ID for voting, encouraging fraud.
Insane no voter ID, claims of racism despite free IDs. Needed ID for COVID vaccine to fly, enter restaurants in New York. Hypocrisy astounding. Openly shipping people to swing states with tax dollars is a voting project, not humanitarian.
Government rounding up illegals: Minnesota tragedy where woman shot. Horrible, officer recently dragged by car, tensions high, but all wrong.
Consensus on deporting gang members, criminals, rapists, murderers—even Democrats okay quietly, e.g., rounding up bad people in Boston.
Harder beyond criminals to workers. ICE agents have tough job. Better if local police than ICE, trained for protesters.
Left-wing sanctuary cities won't ask legal status. For robbery, rape, car theft, won't tell ICE. Need federal police. Tell sanctuary cities: police your city for less ICE.
Can't force if they don't agree, large illegal populations like California see them as community. LA without Mexicans wouldn't be LA, integral, illegal and legal. Restaurants employ illegals.
Local police better than national, but must enforce law. Sanctuary cities defy national immigration laws. If locals won't, need national agents. Tragedy, but sympathy for law enforcement's difficult job.
Trump administration: few hundred thousand removed since January 2025, not millions. Many self-deported when Trump took office.
Obama deportations counted border turnbacks, not interior like Home Depot snatch-ups to wrong countries.
October 2025 Homeland Security: 2 million removed—527,000 formal deportations + 1.6 million voluntary leaves or lost status. NPR: 600,000 deportations + 1.6 million immigrants.
Estimate illegals 2020-2024: guesses 8 million. Reports vary: used to say 11 million, now 20-30 million total in country.
10.8 million encounters nationwide 2021-2024 (apprehensions between ports, inadmissible at ports). Actual number higher since many not encountered, multiples attempts. Even 5-8 million way bigger than Austin.
Austin liberal, no sanctuary policies, but ICE protests, recent arrests.
After shooting, ICE seen as villains, masked military on streets. Can't ask ICE agent name/badge like cops, can't film easily. Masks enable pretending to be ICE.
Story: family killed by fake UPS drivers. Easy to fake ICE logos, armed gangs could rob pretending to be ICE.
Masks justified near border/night vs. cartels, but not in Chicago courthouse elevator with women/children. Local police don't mask in courthouse, state name/badge.
ICE new at this scale, get doxxed/threatened. Local police also doxxed but established. People call police for break-ins, not ICE. Post-2020 defund police regret after riots.
People accept police for crime but oppose masked ICE snatching, including citizens without papers, shipping to wrong countries.
To deport 500,000/year, need anonymity or no one does job, but creates impersonation risks.
Idea: badges with number/first name (Steve #324) for complaints, but instant doxing, lists on social media.
Ugly watching US citizen woman shot in face. Officer almost run over, car hit him, but she turning away, seemed crazy, moved there to agitate/block traffic.
Ideal: local police enforce, end sanctuary cities.
Can't stop sanctuary cities easily. Blame left's sanctuary policies forcing ICE. Defiance/nullification of deportation laws for years brought this.
They don't want those laws, think once here, stay. Suicidal empathy (Gad Saad).
Balance needed. Perspectives: illegal program for votes/seats, must reverse or accelerates in 2028, hijacked democracy. Other side: no militarized masked groups snatching, even citizens—Gestapo 'where's your papers?' Complicated.
People want to view this as a black and white issue, but it's both compassionate and pragmatic. The argument needs to be made repeatedly that the left created this situation by disobeying immigration laws, ignoring deportation orders, and not reporting criminals. This refers to criminal illegal immigrants like those who stole a car or raped someone, not ordinary working people mowing lawns. These criminals are in jail.
Most people support removing gang members, criminals, murderers, and rapists. However, left-wing sanctuary cities are not reporting them, contributing to ICE operations in places like Minnesota as an example of pure insanity.
Joe expresses being a long-time fan of Rand Paul, thanks him for being a voice of reason, and for holding Fauci accountable during COVID by asking informed tough questions.
Rand states Fauci needs to testify again. They've asked him to come voluntarily; if he resists, subpoena power would require a court case. Fauci must explain why this wasn't gain of function research and why he was destroying federal records.
Emails show instructions like "Destroy this after you've read it," which is illegal, and they have evidence.
All this is in the book Deception. Rand did not do the audio version; someone else did. He wanted his wife to narrate because she's a great reader and helped write it. She and Rand wrote it together; it's their second book after The Case Against Socialism. He jokingly says the boring dry scientific parts are his, and anything interesting is his wife's.
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