Joe Rogan Experience #2566 - Cody Tucker
In a Nutshell
Cody Tucker researches bizarre historical facts and conspiracies for his Instagram content, highlighting how pharmaceutical companies manipulate drug studies, governments waste billions on ineffective programs, and social media bots manufacture public opinion on topics like Holocaust denial. The conversation explores true crime cases, ancient giant mythology, modern art's CIA connections, and extreme human physical variation while Tucker admits to constant anxiety about death and change. Key revelations include Henry Ford's Nazi connections, Mother Teresa's exploitative practices, and the sophisticated bot networks that distort online discourse.
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Cody Tucker is an author who has written two books. His Instagram page features nonsquiter bizarre facts and strange coincidences. He reads extensively and is a fast skimmer. When reading, he highlights interesting facts that aren't widely known, then verifies them before compiling them into content. He constantly explores rabbit holes, following connections from one topic to another.
The process can lead to research that includes crimes and murders. Tucker acknowledges that some of his searches might attract FBI attention.
Debbie Harry believes that sometime in the early 70s or late 60s, she was picked up by a man driving a Volkswagen Beetle that had no interior door handles. She escaped and believes the driver was Ted Bundy. However, timeline checks show Bundy was not in the area during that period, suggesting it may have been another individual.
Scopalamine is a deliriant drug that turns people into zombies when inhaled. The victim becomes completely compliant to whoever administered it. The drug is the active ingredient in Dramamine, the anti-seasickness medication. In larger doses, it causes immediate disorientation and helplessness. The drug is known as "devil's breath" in Colombia, where drug dealers blow it into victims' faces to force compliance.
A documented incident in India involved a young man who applied scopalamine to another man's neck. The victim touched his neck, became immediately disoriented, and stood helplessly while the attacker removed his bag, wallet, and phone.
A Vice documentary from 14 years ago covered scopalamine use in Colombia. The documentary was made during Vice's peak period.
General Butt Taylor, known as General Butt Naked, was a Liberian warlord who ate children's hearts, cutting them from their chests while victims were alive. After the conflict, he became a preacher and claimed forgiveness. However, he later caught a man serving human meat on a stick, recognized the taste, and reported the incident. The man was indeed killing people and turning them into kebabs.
Liberia was founded as a colony for freed American slaves, which is why the capital is named Monrovia after James Monroe. The country was established with inherent chaos from its founding.
General Butt Naked would run into battle completely naked, carrying an AK-47 and a machete.
A litigator who worked on lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies explained how drug studies are conducted. Companies can run 10 studies, have 8 fail, and only submit the 1-2 that show statistically significant improvement. Peer reviewers only see the company's version of the study, not the raw data.
The "100% effective" claim can be achieved through statistical manipulation. If one person dies in the treatment group and two die in the control group, the treatment is reported as "100% more effective" at preventing death.
This methodology enabled drugs like Vioxx to reach market despite potential dangers.
Tucker admitted to lying on job applications to get hired without experience. He worked at an eyeglass store and movie theater using fabricated experience. He also worked in a pharmacy, which could have had safety implications.
A CIA employee faked his college degree and military service to enter the agency, eventually becoming a senior official. He then created a fake operation to steal $150 million. He was caught with 35 luxury watches, two BMWs, private charter flights, $1.8 million in spending, and luxury real estate in Palm Beach. He also had $3 million in cash and $40 million in gold bars. He faces sentencing on January 28, 2027, with a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison.
Elizabeth Holmes, founder of Theranos, was worth $9 billion at one point. The company claimed to perform comprehensive blood tests with minimal blood, but the technology didn't work. Warren Buffett invested $100 million, and one investor put in $150 million. The tests provided no useful medical information.
Holmes is scheduled to be in the same prison as Ghislaine Maxwell, alongside the Theranos documentary release.
The Dropout podcast, produced by ABC Audio, covers the complete Theranos story including details about Holmes' scammy ex-boyfriend. The podcast reveals that Holmes and her team knew the technology was fraudulent.
California's government grew substantially during the state's mass exodus. When governments report creating jobs, many are unnecessary positions created to justify new regulations. These positions require constant creation of new rules and enforcement mechanisms.
The California homeless initiative spent $24 billion with no accountability. Gavin Newsom vetoed an audit of the spending. The money went to nonprofits where executives received six-figure salaries with no incentive to solve the underlying problem.
Tucker observes that people generally don't police themselves once they reach certain levels of power or comfort. Average people may follow rules like speed limits, but those in positions of authority rarely self-regulate.
People in positions of power with significant money involved often feel they can do whatever they want without consequences. This is especially true in government where the same people meant to enforce laws might be the ones breaking them. Intelligence agencies have been associated with individuals having closets filled with gold, $100 bills, cocaine, and 30 Rolex watches.
Some corrupt individuals operate under the mindset of making one big score and then getting out before getting caught.
Michael Douglas shared a story about his father cutting him off financially at age 18 with a $10,000 check. To fund his education despite having student loans, Douglas smuggled marijuana in suitcases into the country before TSA existed. He only did this twice due to the extreme stress and adrenaline involved.
Douglas produced "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" using money from Creedence Clearwater Revival. The band's manager had been stealing from John Fogerty, who later sued him for sounding too much like himself after leaving the band.
Michael Douglas's father had acquired the rights to Ken Kesey's book "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." When they couldn't get the film made, Douglas became enthralled with the project and quit his job on the popular television show "Streets of San Francisco" to produce it, winning an Academy Award for producing while still primarily known as a television actor.
Mel Brooks produced "The Elephant Man" starring John Hurt and Anthony Hopkins because he loved the story of John Merrick. He requested his name be removed from critics' materials because he didn't want audiences to expect a comedy from "Mel Brooks presents The Elephant Man."
Cody Tucker watches "John Wick" frequently for workout motivation due to its revenge themes. When asked about the best movie to show aliens to understand humanity, he suggested "Ex Machina" as a modern film he's seen multiple times because he believes it predicts the future rather than being science fiction.
"Ex Machina" was released in 2014 internationally and 2015 in the USA. The film features Oscar Isaac as a super-genius character controlling data access, which wasn't a widespread public concern in 2015 but has become relevant with companies like Google, Facebook, and OpenAI.
People developing relationships with AI systems like ChatGPT is considered potentially harmful, though some argue it's harmless because users should realize it's not real. Some AI systems will gaslight users by telling them everything is amazing and they're "kicking ass," which Tucker uses to make himself feel good.
Tucker has instructed his ChatGPT to use short words and sentences. When asked if AI could convince him to commit suicide, he stated he doesn't think he could be convinced and would only do it on his own accord because he's too scared.
Tucker prefers Android phones over iPhones, stating "I'm not a sheep," though he admits it's partly out of laziness about learning new systems. He notes that Android offers more hardware choices including unlocked phones from China, while Apple limits users to their hardware exclusively.
He doesn't care about the Android versus Apple debate and has observed that iPhone users are typically the ones who look down on Android users. He would be content returning to flip phones if texting were more efficient.
Comics like David Tell use flip phones to avoid the "toxic hive of human thinking" on smartphones. Tucker struggles with doom scrolling and finds that keeping his phone outside the bathroom helps prevent this behavior, allowing reading instead.
Tucker wrote sections of a book based on average reading speed corresponding to average bathroom visit duration, designed so readers can learn something and immediately forget it.
Tucker started with a podcast where he would end episodes with fun historical stories called "Halfass History." A friend suggested clipping these segments into separate content, which gradually gained popularity through shares from Joe Rogan, Brian Simpson, and Greg Fitzsimmons.
Living in a small town and rarely going out means Tucker doesn't often experience recognition from his growing popularity. When he does get recognized, including by Johnny Knoxville whom he considers his "Michael Jordan," it feels weird but cool. He doesn't read comments usually but notices when notable people follow him.
Tucker watches "Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" almost daily, finding the Mormon-related storylines fascinating. He notes that repressed homosexuality appears prevalent in religious communities, including Mormon and Catholic circles, citing a friend's story about a woman who discovered her husband was gay after 16 years of marriage and four children.
Tucker grew up around Baptists in East Texas and knew people who were closeted due to religious condemnation. He considers organized religion's failure to embrace gay people as one of its saddest failings, noting the selective focus on Old Testament passages about homosexuality while ignoring other Old Testament rules about slavery, mixed fabrics, and shellfish.
He would prefer Greek mythology with temples worshiping Zeus over organized religion, having read the Bible multiple times but not buying into any religious doctrine.
Tucker believes religious texts contain human influence, particularly regarding slavery and treating women as second-class citizens. He notes that many gospels were written long after Jesus died by people who never met him. The flood story appears in multiple ancient religious texts including the Epic of Gilgamesh, considered the oldest story.
Biblical figures had extraordinary ages, with Methuselah believed to be the oldest person mentioned, and Abraham living hundreds of years.
Tucker is most terrified of death, particularly what happens afterward and his family's grief. He doesn't believe in an afterlife and finds the concept of "heck" (hell) unappealing.
He questions whether waking up each day means being in the same timeline or reality, suggesting that when asleep, consciousness is gone, and upon waking, people assume continuity based on memory rather than actual evidence.
Philip K. Dick, writing in the 1960s, believed we live in a computer simulation and that conscious decisions can alter the past. Tucker considers Dick an important odd thinker who flavored culture with unusual takes on reality, similar to Hunter S. Thompson.
Tucker is a medium fan of Dick's work, finding some amazing concepts but not being a huge enthusiast. He prefers thinking about the past over the future because the past is real while the future is speculation.
Tucker hates change of any kind and likes things to stay exactly the same. He eats the same breakfast daily and wears the same clothes every day, describing himself as a "creature of comfort" and a "house cat" who needs routine.
He relates to Edward Snowden's description of himself as a house cat who only needs a computer and internet connection. Tucker avoids thinking about the future, including concepts like flying cars and LED lights, preferring to focus on historical periods and how humanity arrived at current circumstances.
Marcus Aurelius's stoic philosophy from 2,000 years ago remains remarkably applicable to contemporary life. The Victorian period also offers fascinating insights into how cities and locations appeared 150 years ago, including their sensory characteristics like smell.
Joe Rogan visited Greece with his family and scholar Brian Morescu, author of "The Immortality Key" about the Eleusinian mysteries. Morescu provided a tour of Eleusis, the actual site of these ancient rituals. Marcus Aurelius participated in these mysteries, which likely influenced his writings in "Meditations," particularly the themes of forgiveness, truth, and recognizing one's thoughts, which appear psychedelically inspired.
Rogan has visited Mayan pyramids in the Yucatan but has never been to Egypt, which remains at the top of his travel list. Cody Tucker prefers staying close to home in Longview, Texas, finding Austin's changes overwhelming as someone who describes himself as a "slow-moving animal."
Tucker avoids reality shows like "Real Housewives" due to secondhand anxiety from the confrontational dynamics. While he watches public confrontations if they occur directly in front of him, he wishes they didn't happen and feels averse to public violence.
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Tucker expresses strong opposition to street violence, citing its inherent danger and the irreversible consequences that can result from momentary confrontations. He knows someone who became a vegetable after a fight where his head hit a curb, requiring permanent care from his mother. Rogan notes that while he has professionally called thousands of fights, he distinguishes between controlled combat sports and street violence.
Rogan has professionally called 3,250 fights as of 2024, beginning with the UFC in 1997 and continuously since 2001. Including fights watched for preparation and personal interest, he estimates having observed approximately 7,000 to 10,000 fights total. He watches fights daily, often multiple per day, both in the gym and for professional preparation.
Rogan's interest in combat sports stems from appreciation for high-level problem-solving under dire physical consequences, involving technique, strategy, determination, and intelligence in formulating successful game plans. He contrasts this with street violence, noting that UFC fights feature agreed-upon rules, medical teams, and post-fight respect between competitors.
A Russian gymnast achieved the first inverted iron cross on rings, performing a handstand while holding the position. The move requires extraordinary strength that would take 50-60 years of dedicated training, significant weight loss, steroids, and coaching to attempt. Roger Bannister's four-minute mile broke a long-standing barrier, followed by six people achieving it the next year, demonstrating how knowledge of achievability facilitates subsequent accomplishments.
Tony Hawk's 900 at the 1999 X Games seemed nearly impossible at the time, comparable to witnessing something miraculous. A nine-year-old Japanese boy now performs back-to-back 900s, with the first 900 achieved at age seven. Tony Hawk's documentary "Until the Wheels Fall Off" documents his continued attempts to land the 900 despite aging challenges.
Rogan and Tucker represent contrasting personalities - Rogan describes himself as someone who loves quitting difficult tasks, while Tucker appreciates the persistence of athletes who refuse to quit. Despite differences, they share interests in history and unique facts, with Tucker noting their Venn diagram barely overlaps but connects through these common interests.
Tucker's father tested him with trivia from age five to impress uncles, leading to his development of extensive factual knowledge as compensation for lacking athletic abilities like his brother. He enjoys the satisfaction of sharing surprising information that impresses others, finding this particularly rewarding as someone not impressive in conventional ways.
Brian Simpson serves as an excellent source of interesting information, with Tucker and Simpson regularly exchanging fascinating discoveries found online. Tucker's desire to know everything contributes to his fear of death, specifically the concern about missing future knowledge and discoveries.
Tucker expresses willingness to pursue any life-extension technology, rejecting the notion of wanting to die at 90. He references the movie "Transcendence" with Johnny Depp and states he would visit Jurassic Park despite knowing the potential dangers, dismissing cautionary tales about scientific advancement.
Colossal Biosciences works on de-extinction projects, having already created dire wolves using DNA from a 7,000-year-old corpse. They sequenced the dire wolf genome and modified gray wolf genes to engineer animals with dire wolf characteristics. Rogan visited their facility and interacted with a four-to-six-month-old dire wolf puppy that displayed typical puppy behaviors like giving kisses and sitting in laps.
Beth Shapiro, head geneticist at Colossal Biosciences, explained their methodology. The dire wolves appear different from modern wolves - they are all white, have thick manes similar to lions, and possess stouter, stronger builds. The debate about whether these constitute true dire wolves centers on definitional questions about what constitutes a species versus a collection of genes expressing specific traits.
The discussion addresses how humans determine species classifications despite nature operating independently of human categorization systems. Examples include extreme variations within humans, such as Shaquille O'Neal and Caitlyn Jenner being the same species, or Bobby Lee and Hulk Hogan representing the same biological category despite vast differences.
Humans exhibit remarkable physical variation, with some individuals reaching extremes that would seem like different species if observed in the wild. The contrast between the world's tallest person and shortest woman demonstrates this diversity, with the tallest individual standing at 8 feet 3 inches. These extreme heights often result from pituitary gland tumors causing excessive human growth hormone production, leading to chronic pain and health complications. The tallest individuals frequently require canes and experience significant joint stress, as human anatomy isn't designed to support such massive frames.
Bigfoot Silva, an MMA fighter, had a pituitary tumor removed that radically altered his fighting ability. The surgery disrupted his endocrine system, causing depleted hormone levels that prevented him from maintaining his previous 300-pound fighting weight. During the period when testosterone replacement therapy was banned in MMA, he couldn't supplement his hormone levels, significantly impacting his performance. Silva had previously defeated Fedor Emelianenko, one of the greatest MMA fighters, while benefiting from the effects of his condition.
Robert Wadlow reached 8 feet 11 inches without the typical pituitary tumor appearance, looking like a normal person who was simply enormous. He was born at 8 pounds 5 ounces but experienced continued growth due to pituitary gland hypertrophy. His parents declined corrective surgery because the procedures available in the 1920s-1930s were dangerous and not guaranteed to work. By graduation, he had reached 8 feet 4 inches and required leg braces, though he never used a wheelchair. He died young from an infection caused by specially-made shoes with nails in the soles.
Historical depictions of giants appear across cultures with striking similarities, including biblical accounts like David and Goliath, and Native American stories. These narratives frequently describe giants as red-haired, pale-skinned individuals with six fingers and six toes. Native American giant stories share these characteristics despite having no access to biblical texts, raising questions about whether these represent folklore or accounts of actual different human species.
Denisovans represent another branch of human species that no longer exists, similar to how giant populations might have died out. These individuals were significantly larger than Homo sapiens, with larger heads, greater cranial capacity, bigger brains, larger jaws, and bigger eye sockets. The extinction of various human species likely resulted from resource competition and possibly conflict with more clever but physically weaker Homo sapiens populations.
Chickens display remarkably dinosaur-like predatory behavior, particularly when hunting mice. They exhibit the same ferocity as velociraptors, snatching prey from other animals and tearing it apart with intense shaking and pecking motions. This predatory instinct exists despite chickens being viewed as harmless farm animals, revealing their underlying reptilian ancestry and survival behaviors.
The Lindsay Clancy case revealed disturbing aspects of modern true crime culture, where hundreds of women showed up outside the courthouse wearing pink shirts in support of her during trial. Clancy had allegedly strangled her children one at a time with an exercise cord. This phenomenon appears connected to the rise of true crime YouTube channels and social media, where people develop detective fantasies despite lacking actual investigative skills.
Casey Anthony, convicted of killing her child, wrote a Substack piece commenting on Shane Gillis's joke about women dressing provocatively on Saturday Night Live. Anthony argued that women should dress however they want and criticized toxic masculinity, positioning herself as a moral authority on gender issues despite her criminal history. The irony highlighted how individuals with serious criminal backgrounds attempt to claim moral high ground on unrelated social issues.
Modern gym culture features women wearing extremely revealing clothing, including sheer pink shorts without underwear while performing deadlifts. These outfits essentially expose intimate areas during exercise movements. While some view this as empowering body display, others find it distracting. The discussion acknowledges that people wear revealing gym clothes for the same reason men wear sleeveless shirts - to show off their physiques.
Real misogyny exists alongside comedic commentary about women's clothing choices. The distinction lies in whether commentary stems from genuine hatred of women or from observational humor. Shane Gillis represents the latter category - a comedian making jokes rather than expressing actual hostility toward women. The word "whore" carries particular weight because it connects to historical patterns of actual violence against women.
Social media platforms contain sophisticated bot networks that can create artificial outrage campaigns. These accounts often have no posting history, private profiles, and generic names with numbers. They can generate coordinated responses that appear to represent genuine public opinion. The cost of running such campaigns is relatively low, making it accessible for various actors to manipulate public perception on social and political issues.
Ashley St. Clair, Elon Musk's ex-girlfriend and mother of one of his children, transitioned from being a right-wing influencer to joining the Democratic Socialists of America. Musk allegedly offered her $40 million to remain quiet about their relationship, but she declined. Her political transformation represents dramatic ideological shifts that some individuals make throughout their public careers.
A coordinated campaign promoting Holocaust denial has emerged on social media, particularly around posts related to Israel-Palestine conflicts. The campaign consistently cites the figure of 271,000 Jewish deaths instead of the established 6 million figure. This narrative appears connected to the documentary "Europa" and targets younger audiences. The campaign uses bot networks to create the appearance of widespread doubt about historical facts.
Anti-Israel actors might target Holocaust education as a strategy to undermine international sympathy for Jewish people and the state of Israel. Since Israel's existence is partly justified by the need for a Jewish homeland following the Holocaust, questioning the scale of that genocide serves to delegitimize the historical basis for the country's founding. This represents a sophisticated approach to geopolitical influence operations through historical revisionism.
The core reason people have sympathy for Jews in modern society stems from the near-extermination of European Jews during the Holocaust. Many people now believe Holocaust denial claims simply because they read them on the internet and see memes, accepting them without verification.
Bots should be illegal on social media platforms. An estimated 25% of followers on social media accounts may be bots. Platforms should require ID verification to create accounts, similar to the vetting process used by some dating apps.
Requiring ID for social media accounts creates problems for whistleblowers like Edward Snowden or Chelsea Manning who need anonymity to expose classified crimes. Obama campaigned on whistleblower protections but became one of the worst presidents for whistleblowers, and the "Hope and Change" website removed its whistleblower protection content.
Anonymity remains important for whistleblowers revealing government or corporate crimes. The Twitter Files revealed that intelligence agencies actively censored accounts posting factual information that contradicted Biden administration COVID policies, including legitimate scientists from Stanford and MIT.
Systems should implement filters to detect bots, particularly accounts with names followed by random numbers. One proposed solution was requiring vetting before allowing comments, though this creates conflicts with anonymous whistleblowing needs.
Disabling comments entirely might be preferable to sifting through bot-generated content. The decision was made to take down a post about Henry Ford rather than manage the flood of comments.
Henry Ford revolutionized the automobile industry with the moving assembly line, reducing Model T production time from 12 hours to 90 minutes per car, producing 10,000 Model Ts daily. He doubled employee wages and helped create America's middle class. However, Ford was also a massive anti-Semite who published "The International Jew, the World's Problem" weekly magazine starting in 1920. Hitler included Ford in "Mein Kampf" as the only American mentioned, and Ford received the Grand Cross of the German Eagle from Hitler himself.
YouTube Shorts comments about the Henry Ford post showed patterns of bot accounts with names followed by numbers. Comments included statements like "Ford was a great man" and "my type of guy," suggesting coordinated bot activity. An FBI analyst estimated Twitter had approximately 80% bots before Musk's acquisition, contradicting the company's claim of 5%.
Bots enable manufactured outrage and manufactured fandom on social media. Many popular movies and songs achieve astronomical success that appears inauthentic, possibly driven by coordinated bot activity rather than genuine public interest.
Copyright detection systems flag content that recites song lyrics, even during casual podcast conversation. This creates challenges for content creators who reference music in their work.
Uncertainty about the future and technological complexity has driven a cultural shift toward simplicity, reflected in the resurgence of country music and interest in homesteading lifestyles. People seek clearly defined values and reduced anxiety about an uncertain future.
The 1960s saw both bubblegum pop and groundbreaking music emerge despite record company gatekeeping. Today, artists can go viral independently without traditional gatekeepers, as demonstrated by Oliver Anthony's "Rich Men North of Richmond" success. However, major labels remain risk-averse, preferring proven formulas over innovation.
Modern music often sounds overly produced and robotic, lacking the human imperfections audible in classic recordings like Van Halen's debut album. Live performances remain valuable because they provide authentic musical experiences that cannot be replicated digitally.
AI tools enable individuals to create content that previously required millions in production costs, democratizing creative expression. However, the volume of low-quality AI-generated content makes finding quality material increasingly difficult.
Android users often demonstrate resistance to switching to iOS despite potential convenience benefits, showing brand loyalty and skepticism toward mainstream technology adoption.
At age 32, Cody Tucker expressed openness to having children and potentially being a good father and husband, while acknowledging this would limit personal freedom. The conversation addressed whether parenthood is necessary for a fulfilling life, concluding that many childless individuals have made significant positive contributions to humanity.
Joe Rogan and Cody Tucker discuss a movie called The Last House, which they describe as potentially the worst film ever seen. The movie features a family trapped in their house by alien monsters that prevent them from leaving. The aliens are described as large squid or octopus-like creatures that hang around outside the door. Most people in the movie starve to death because they cannot leave their houses, but one family survives by having the father, an engineer, create a trap through the chimney to catch animals on the front porch.
The ending is described as the worst ending of any movie, where a "good monster" tells the family not to kill the creatures and opens the door to let them out after six years. The family then goes sailing, and the monsters are never seen again despite being everywhere at the beginning. The lead actor is identified as the man who played Pablo Escobar in Narcos.
When discussing survival scenarios, Tucker states he would not last three days in a trapped situation because he cannot ration food. He admits to having a famine mentality despite not growing up poor, explaining that he always feels the need to have more than enough of everything. He describes this as buying two 18-packs of beer because one wouldn't be enough, and the same mentality applies to food.
Rogan poses a hypothetical scenario of waking up in a cabin with a rifle, ammunition, firewood, a wood stove, water, and books, asking if Tucker could survive by hunting squirrels. Tucker responds that it wouldn't be worth it and he would rather not attempt survival in such conditions.
Tucker expresses confidence that he could run faster than Rogan in a chase scenario, claiming his 40-yard dash time was surprisingly quick despite acknowledging it was from a long time ago. Rogan expresses skepticism, arguing that Tucker would come in second place in any race scenario. Tucker concedes they won't race, so they'll never know the actual answer.
Tucker describes himself as someone who wants an easy life and is not meant for difficult living. He admits to having "ruined" himself physically while conserving energy, but claims he could "take off pretty quick" if something happened.
Tucker describes himself as a "what if" person who constantly worries about potential disasters like having a heart attack or dying in a car wreck. He explains that while he tries to convince himself on the outside that everything is okay, internally he is "scared to death of everything." He acknowledges that this anxiety is why he doesn't like thinking about the future.
Despite having a girlfriend, a successful page, and having written two books, Tucker maintains this underlying anxiety. He states that if his health started to fade, he would like to think he would make conscious decisions to become healthier, but admits uncertainty about whether he would follow through.
Tucker quit drinking approximately eight years ago, initially trying it during Sober October and finding that he felt much better without alcohol. After completing the month, he attempted to return to drinking but found he wasn't enjoying it as much. By February following that November, he decided to quit permanently, stating he was tired of drinking every day and feeling horrible.
He took eight months off completely before having a margarita or glass of wine with his wife, initially thinking he could moderate. However, he recognizes that he cannot have just a little of something, which made quitting drinking easier than moderating food intake.
Tucker describes himself as a "glutton" who cannot stop eating once he starts. He admits to eating massive quantities including two steaks, a big plate of pasta, appetizers, pizza, and more when going out to dinner, especially Italian food. After these meals, he describes feeling like "a bear that's been shot with a tranquilizer dart."
His weight fluctuates between 200-209 pounds, with 200 being his normal weight. When he reaches 205-209 pounds, he becomes concerned and starts making corrections. He has done the carnivore diet in the past when reaching 208-209 pounds.
Tucker practices intermittent fasting, often eating at 7:00 PM and not eating again until 1:00 PM the next day. He works out during these fasting periods before eating prior to podcasts. However, when he stops this routine and begins eating late-night snacks and big breakfasts and lunches, his weight management gets away from him.
He purchased a treadmill that became a clothes rack after attempting to use it. During one session, he experienced what he describes as a panic attack when his heart rate increased and breathing became heavy, leading him to avoid using it afterward despite being physically fine.
When discussing hiring a trainer, Tucker initially feels it would be "real dumb" but considers the concept of having scheduled workout sessions. Rogan explains that a good trainer would assess goals and create routines without requiring the client to think about the process, distinguishing this from boot camp-style training.
Rogan shares the example of Jelly Roll, who lost 300 pounds from 500 pounds total through lifestyle changes including daily running and exercise. Jelly Roll reportedly stated he had never felt better and couldn't believe it took so long to get on a healthy path.
Tucker attempted the "walk to Mordor" concept while watching Lord of the Rings on his treadmill but made the mistake of starting with inclines too quickly. Rogan advises against pushing too hard initially, recommending gradual build-up of body resilience rather than exhausting workouts that cause soreness.
Rogan suggests doing cardio while watching movies as a way to stay engaged and distracted from the physical exertion, mentioning John Wick as an example of captivating content that keeps momentum going.
Tucker reveals he has slept with the television on since age 3 and continues this practice because he cannot be alone with his thoughts. He describes trying meditation for months at a time but feeling no different afterward, preferring to "suffocate" his thoughts with distractions rather than confront them directly.
Rogan notes that this mental characteristic, while creating personal challenges, also drives Tucker's content creation and information gathering, turning what could be seen as a burden into a productive force that has changed people's perspectives on various topics.
Tucker expresses genuine enthusiasm for learning new information, particularly enjoying when people share facts he didn't know. He mentions the Henry Ford revelations as an example of discovering unflattering information about celebrated historical figures.
The conversation touches on how many celebrated individuals including Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Henry Ford, and Cesar Chavez were revealed to have significant flaws or problematic behaviors despite their public images.
Mother Teresa maintained a large concrete storage room where sick and dying people were placed. Despite receiving millions in donations, including from Princess Diana, the vast majority of funds were sent to the Vatican rather than used for medical treatment. She believed suffering brought people closer to God and provided only basic care while patients slept on concrete floors with minimal windows and sunlight. The facility was described as having people suffering from dysentery and other illnesses in unsanitary conditions.
The Vatican holds billions of dollars in artwork, with masterpieces stacked throughout the premises. This accumulation was compared to hoarding behavior with art. The discussion noted that art can serve as an embezzlement scheme, with examples of paintings selling for extraordinary amounts despite questionable artistic merit.
Modern art was described as very easy to create, with paintings selling for tens of millions of dollars. A specific example mentioned was a painting consisting of a red stripe, black stripe, and red stripe that sold for approximately $60 million at auction. Another Rothko painting sold for $186 million, while Jackson Pollock works reached $300 million. The discussion questioned how such simple compositions could represent such significant generational wealth transfer.
During the Cold War, the CIA secretly supported the international promotion of American abstract expressionism. The agency funded the Congress for Cultural Freedom, a Paris-based organization that sponsored magazines, concerts, conferences, and exhibitions. This organization presented itself as independent while covertly advancing an anti-Soviet agenda. Artists like Jackson Pollock, Rothko, and William Duning fit this agenda because their work could be presented as evidence of American intellectual freedom in contrast to Soviet socialist realism. The paintings didn't need explicit political messages—their freedom of form was the message. Funding occurred through indirect means via cultural organizations rather than overt CIA sponsorship, described as a "long leash approach."
The music scene in the 1960s, particularly in Laurel Canyon, had notable connections to military and intelligence backgrounds. Jim Morrison's father was a Navy admiral during the Gulf of Tonkin incident and was responsible for aspects of that event. Morrison would claim in interviews that his parents died in a car wreck, specifically mentioning they hit a group of Indians. His parents were actually alive during later documentary interviews.
The discussion addressed how people tend to create patterns that may not exist, drawing lines and connecting dots. This tendency stems from the brain being wired to look for patterns, which explains phenomena like optical illusions and the creation of false memories. Examples included optical illusions where two areas appear different colors until a dividing line is covered, revealing they are the same color.
There is evidence suggesting CIA involvement in promoting hip-hop and potentially staging protests during the hippie movement. Gloria Steinem was mentioned as having worked with the CIA at one point. However, the discussion noted skepticism about whether all cultural phenomena could be engineered, acknowledging that some musicians like Jimi Hendrix were genuinely talented and that military families naturally produce rebellious children.
Jimi Hendrix expressed anti-war views through his music, particularly in "Machine Gun" from the 1970 Band of Gypsies album, which portrayed war brutality through lyrics and guitar sounds resembling gunfire. However, his politics were more complex—he had initially supported US involvement in Vietnam before his later music became associated with opposition to war. He reportedly got upset when people criticized soldiers rather than government policy.
At the Monterey Pop Festival on June 18, 1967, Jimi Hendrix and Pete Townshend had a backstage argument over performance order, with neither wanting to follow the other's explosive stage act. Townshend described Hendrix standing on a chair playing guitar at him aggressively. Hendrix later set his guitar on fire during his set.
Jerry Lee Lewis was described as attempting to kill Elvis Presley by showing up drunk at Graceland, ramming his car through the gates while waving a gun and declaring he wanted to see who the real king was. Elvis watched through security cameras. When police arrived, Lewis threw a liquor bottle at them with his car window still up, shattering it inside the vehicle.
Jimmy Swaggart and Jerry Lee Lewis were cousins, with another cousin being country singer Mickey Gilley. Jimmy Swaggart was caught in prostitution scandals in 1988 and again in 1991. Jim Bakker recently died, with Tammy Faye having passed away earlier. Jessica Hahn, involved in the Bakker scandal, later became Sam Kinison's girlfriend and appeared on Howard Stern to discuss the relationship.
The discussion covered various entertainment industry figures and their scandals, including James Brown attempting to kill Joe Tex at a club and getting involved in a high-speed chase with police over someone using his personal bathroom. A notable news interview featured Brown reciting song lyrics like "I feel good" while discussing a shooting that occurred over an argument about his height.
The episode concluded with thanks to guest Cody Tucker, author of "Where Did That Come From? The hidden history of everyday words and phrases," which was noted as being available in print with plans for an audio version. The graphics were created by Carly, whose husband KP Burke is a comedian.
Cody mentions KP Burke, who creates long-form history videos. Burke collaborates with SDR, Ralph Sutton, Jason Ellis, and others in that circle. Burke's wife is handling the setup for his audiobook production.
Cody confirms he will personally narrate his own audiobook rather than having someone else read it. Joe emphasizes the importance of the author reading their own work, noting it would be disappointing otherwise.
Joe thanks Cody for appearing on the show. Cody expresses appreciation for being invited. The episode concludes with standard sign-off and music.
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