Episode #228: Body Ecology for Modern Times with Donna Gates, MEd, ABAAHP

Introduction to Better Health Guy Blogcast00:01

Welcome to Better Health Guy blogcasts, empowering your better health. The content of this show is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure any illness or medical condition. Nothing in today's discussion is meant to serve as medical advice or as information to facilitate self-treatment. As always, please discuss any potential health related decisions with your own personal medical authority.

Guest Introduction: Donna Gates and Body Ecology00:31

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 228 of the Better Health Guy blog series. Today's guest is Donna Gates and the topic of the show is body ecology for modern times. Donna Gates is a pioneer in gut health, infections, and immunity decades before it became mainstream. She was the first to teach about the extraordinary and complex world inside the gut, now known as the microbiome, and how it influences immunity, brain health, metabolism, and long-term wellness. She is the founder of Body Ecology, a revolutionary system that introduced the first gluten-free, sugar-free, and dairy-free nutritional approaches with a strategic focus on specific fermented foods to create a thriving inner ecosystem in the gut. In her best-selling book, The Body Ecology Diet, which has remained relevant for decades, Donna explains how to conquer candida, restore microbial balance, and rebuild the immune system. She reveals how the inner ecosystem is established at birth and how this process represents nature's original form of building a vibrant immune system. By partnering with nature rather than attempting to override it, we build true immune resilience, even in a toxic world where pathogens are a constant threat. Her newest book, Taming the Dragon: Body Ecology's Guide to Preventing and Treating Viral Infections, offers practical solutions for persistent viral illness, immune dysfunction, and long haulers.

Interview Start and Mutual Appreciation02:01

It is my great honor today to have an OG in the health and wellness realm to talk with us about body ecology, about viruses, about long COVID, and about the concept of the epigenetic reset to optimize the future health of the unborn child. Given that this is Donna's first guest appearance on the podcast, and she has such a vast expertise, we're going to talk about a number of different things impacting our ability to optimize our health and wellness. Thank you so much for being here today, Donna. It's a great honor.

Wow. It's a great honor for me, Scott, because I've followed you for years. And I just love your podcast. You ask the best questions. You ask questions and I think, "Oh, I would have asked that."

It's like the original godfather, I believe. So maybe the original godmother.

Okay, good. I am actually original in a bunch of things, and I don't think I get credit for it anymore. So that's nice.

I've listened to every single one sometimes two or three times. The last one you did on long haul COVID, for that for long haulers. That was excellent.

Body Ecology Diet Origins and Evolution03:30

Many people will know you from Body Ecology. That's how I first heard about you and your work many years ago. I've used several of your products over the years. You first published your book, The Body Ecology Diet, back around 1994. I'm curious how much the diet principles have changed since your initial writings. And then wondering if you can also talk to us about what drove your passion for writing a book about yeast, about candida, about sugar-free, gluten-free, casein-free, probiotic-rich diets, give us an overview of the concepts that went into body ecology.

In that book was the first time anyone ever wrote about this thing at this world in our gut. And I had to come up with this term. So, I used inner ecosystem. Eventually, the term microbiome is the popular one that everyone uses. What happened to me is as a teenager, I went on antibiotics for a really long time every single day. Tetracycline, that's what the doctors gave you. I went on the birth control pill and by the time I was in college, I was a real mess, but I didn't know what was wrong. I did know I had a vaginal yeast infection, but I didn't understand yet that those infections become systemic. I did everything possible. I tried raw diets macrobiotic for eight years. I learned a lot all along the way which was useful. When I met Dr. William Crook, he had just written this book called The Yeast Connection. And I actually had the good fortune to sit out on a fountain outside of one of the big conferences Expo I think and he was introducing his book and I nobody was around him and I sat down and started talking to him and he said you know his partner Orian Truss he said we don't believe there's a cure for this. So I thought of course there has to be so I'm going to find it and I really had a lot of training in food is medicine. I lived in Japan for about six or seven years studied with Limo Moawa and even went to another type of training called Kaise which is very high level Japanese training where they really do focus on food as medicine and of course Chinese medicine has a very good understanding of the energetics of food. So I thought well I'm going to find an answer and so I went home and took his diet and it was really good but not good enough. So I kept finding what is this condition? And that's the first thing you have to look at is what is candidiasis and then what foods would be appropriate. So like dairy for example is damp and mucousy and also because I already knew I was beginning to understand a lot about the inner ecosystem and knew that people had gut issues. That's why I brought in the fermented foods. Nobody ever talked about it. But there were microbiologists out there talking all the time about microbes, but they just kept the information among themselves and they didn't get it out to us. I wrote a chapter in the book just on this world inside of us, this inner garden and how we were causing a silent spring cuz Rachel Carson had written this book. Actually, I think that's one of the chapters about what we're doing to poison this world. So, we would have a silent spring. That's what has happened.

When I was macrobiotic there are two principles the acid alkaline and yin and yang which is too hard for Americans to understand. So I changed it to principle of balance. That's really what it is. And so I took those two principles and started there. But I started asking the universe there must be other principles that would help us heal or or can be applied to diet, how we're eating. And so it turns out that there I came up with seven principles. So that hasn't changed at all because they're universal laws. But what it has changed is one of those universal laws is the principle of uniqueness. So I developed a diet for people with candidiasis. It turned out when I put it out there I got emails from all over the place people saying oh I had this and I had that and it went away. So it seemed to be a diet that fixed a lot of things not just candida. Fast forward, it is a diet that fixes a lot of things cuz it's very basic, very essential to do the foods are recommended. Over the years, I learned to make some modifications to the diet. Like I think it's very very important that we're mindful of the foods are high in oxalates. And that's because yeast and mold and fungus, they all make oxalates. So you don't want more in your diet because it's way too much for the body to handle and it causes lots and lots of problems. Pain, pain is one of them. One of the main ones that's one major change is I want people to be mindful of the oxalates. And there's this thing about how you can't go oh suddenly eliminate all oxalates from your diet or you're going to have a dumping bad like a cleansing of die off. It's bad. I didn't find that to be true. I actually did take all the top oxalates and just didn't eat them anymore. I had gone off to speak somewhere and I needed energy. So I took some chocolate and a couple of other things and when I got home my knees were aching and I don't usually have any problems with my joints. So I thought oh and also the other thing oxalates for me is it causes my left eye to dry up too much and so it burns. So I had those two symptoms and I was sitting there cooking something thinking why would I have these two symptoms? And then it all of a sudden it dawned on me that yeah, I've been eating chocolate and you I think at the hotel I ordered spinach, super high in oxalates. When I started working with children with autism, they're incredibly sensitive to oxalates. So that's important to know look up what they are and avoid the high oxalate foods and everybody will improve if they do that.

I did introduce fermented foods and when I talked about this world in our gut and had a chapter on them too, fermented vegetables and what they do. Of course, over the years, I've added much more science to that. To me, if you only ate fermented vegetables and took bifidus, the other bacteria, that's super important, super complimentary to all the diversity that you get in the fermented vegetables. That's going to be fantastic. And there's a whole bunch of probiotics out. We have a bunch, too. But you can introduce those, of course, to get them into your gut. But it's just amazing what fermented vegetables do. And now in a year, I'll be 80 years old. I always wanted to be well, I remember being in a family reunion. They rode my great-grandmother in, and she was so old. She had like hardly any hair left and what was there was white and her skin was all lots of brown spots. and she was in a wheelchair cuz her legs were fat and swollen and she was fat and I and I'm like seven or eight and I looked over at her and I thought, I don't think God does this. Something's wrong with this picture and I'm going to find out. I don't want to go down that. I don't want to be a young, healthy, fun kid and then I'm going to end up like that. So, there's got to be an answer. And so, in my mind, all of my life I've kind of looked for longevity tools. And I would say though that if I had to narrow it down, I would put colon therapy. I would put cultured vegetables. Diet's really critical. One of the principles is food combining. And I do think that's an important longevity principle. My few friends that have always practiced food combining. So that means you eat your protein and you eat it with vegetables or you eat, say, rice with vegetables. You don't put the carbs and the protein together. That's all it is. And if you're going to eat fruit, you'd eat it alone. wait 30 minutes to have something else. So my friends that have done this, they definitely look 20 years younger. So I would throw that into the hat too for a longevity tool.

Oxalates and Candida Insights12:00

The oxalate conversation is an interesting one because we've learned somewhat recently that fungal colonization potentially from mold in the environment can also endogenously produce oxalates. So there's the food, there's the endogenous fungal colonization potentially and then we also create oxalates from some of our metabolic processes as well.

Addressing Candida Overgrowth12:33

Let's dig a little deeper into the topic of candida. This is something I've personally experienced as a component of my own health journey. What are some of the most important things for us to consider if we're dealing with an overgrowth of candida or yeast? How important is the diet in terms of optimizing that inner ecosystem, our micro and microbiomes? Talk to us a little bit about the diet. Do we need to eliminate fruit? Some people say yes, some say no. And then let's move into a little bit of some of your favorite compounds that have been proven effective for dealing with an overgrowth of candida from more of an antifungal perspective. Maybe some favorite herbs or spices or things in that realm.

The diet's the most important thing. And sometimes that's all you need to do. You've just got to stop feeding the yeast so that they starve them. You were basically starving of death. Then what they're eating are sugars. So you'll find sugars in grains. You'll find them actually in dairy, regular dairy, even if it's fermented. Dairy is mucus forming. So that's out really. So what you are left with basically is protein and vegetables. So the diet is 80% vegetables, 20% protein. But sometimes, you know, you need to change that up a little bit, go a little more protein. And the vegetables are low oxalate. So, I mean, I just look up the vegetables that are high in oxalates like spinach, other things like chocolate and avoid those. Nuts and seeds you have to be really careful with cuz many of those are high in oxalates. Beans, most of those are high in oxalates except for black eyed peas. In the nut and seed world, the macadamia nuts are low in oxalates. But you just have to be careful. It depends on where the like the nut and seed is grown because over in Australia and New Zealand pecans over there are very very low oxalate but over here they could be high oxalate.

As far as herbs go tons of them just like there's so many herbs on the planet same with viruses they're taking care of these pathogens but we have a supplement Candida Clear and it has all the ones that I think are really important. Oil of oregano is a real great one. You want to take enough though. So, we tell people to take three of those capsules, but I would like to say three times a day because you really do have to be aggressive when you're fighting the yeast in the beginning.

As far as fruit goes, I do see that out there all the time that fruit's fine. I totally disagree with that because fruit is sugar and except for lemons and limes, all the other fruit have sugar. There's two stages to the diet. So, as you start to get well, about 3 months down the road, you can start to introduce these other foods. You can bring in some greens, you can start with quinoa and millet. They happen to be high in oxalate, though. So, you have to cook them in a certain way. What I do is I'll boil them for about 15 20 minutes and then pour off the water. When you pour off the water, you're getting rid of a lot of the oxalates. and then go ahead and prepare them like stir fry them or whatever you're going to do with them or make it like even a millet salad or something. But that'll make a big difference. So I think fruit though it's just it doesn't work. It's sugar at least in the beginning. But then again that's one of the when on stage two you can start adding fruits the low sugar ones like blueberries are low in sugar. Most of your berries are low in sugar but some of them are high in oxalates. The fruit that's lowest in oxalates are blueberries. So when I have fruit, it's usually blueberries, but I don't think fruit is a good thing to have in the winter either because first of all, it doesn't grow in the winter naturally. So traditionally, people wouldn't have been eating it. And then the other thing about fruit is it's cooling like it chills the body, which is great if you're in a hot climate. If you're in Florida, yeah, eat some oranges and so on. If you're in Hawaii, of course, you can you've got a warm climate and the fruit works. It doesn't work in Chicago and Minneapolis and during the winter. So, I would say no to fruit in the winter time.

Mold, Environment, and Yeast Sensitivity16:30

One of the things that I've seen in people who have a really difficult time dealing with their yeast issue is that if they're living in a moldy environment, it seems that it's much more difficult. So wondering if you found that people can mitigate or normalize their yeast overgrowth effectively when they're also not getting exposed to other fungi in their external environment. Have you seen that connection at all?

People with candidiasis are very sensitive to their environment. If you walk into a store, let's say the store has a bunch of fabric, you're going to feel awful in this. Perfume. Just so many smells just immediately make people feel bad. Weak, they weaken you immediately. Get a headache. Definitely a moldy environment would be awful. Mold and yeast are members of the same family. So basically, you have to eliminate both. You have to get rid of the yeast. And even if you get rid of the yeast, I would say you'll never feel good in a moldy environment. You'll be even more sensitive because you had this yeast infection because yeast doesn't really go away. it just goes into a like a more dormant form and can spring back any time. So if your body gets too acidic, the candida is back again at a raging level. So that's why it's important to stay pretty close to the basic diet, but stage two allows you to add more things, but don't go off of that. You can't go back to eating sugar at all.

As far as sugar goes, people need sugar. It's natural that we have this sweet taste. The very first taste in our first food is sweet. That's breast milk. And so, we just like sweets. Today, what we sell that is even better than stevia is something called Be Sweet. And it's mostly allulose, but I know a lot about how stevia works. Stevia is kind of a flavor enhancer. So, we put a little bit of stevia in there with the allulose to make it really good. It tastes amazingly like sugar. So, it's hard to say to somebody, don't eat sugar, and not have something to replace it with. And with the Be Sweet, you can cook with it. Even make good lemonade every day with some fresh lemon juice and a little bit of just to your taste, how much Be Sweet you want to add in, and then water or sparkling mineral water. A lot of times that alone takes away any cravings for sweets. So, you can have sugar.

Stevia, Lyme, and Building Inner Ecology19:01

It's interesting that you were exploring stevia before anyone else even knew what it was. Now, we know based on the work of Dr. Eva Shoppée at University of New Haven that stevia is also helpful for people dealing with borrelia or Lyme disease. Another aspect of your body ecology program is really building that strong inner ecology, supporting a healthy microbiome using probiotics, fermented foods. I want to touch a little bit about those people that are maybe dealing with mast cell activation syndrome, maybe dealing with histamine issues. Do you find that they can tolerate fermented foods? Because I know many of them don't early on seem to tolerate a lot of histamine or high histamine foods. So, talk to us a little bit about how we build that stronger inner ecology in people that are really sensitive, more complex, chronic conditions. Maybe they don't even tolerate some probiotics. And we know that many in this community of listeners have been on antibiotics for many years potentially for Lyme disease that reduces our beneficial bacteria, makes us more prone to yeast and fungal overgrowth. So I'm wondering what have you seen that's working best for restoring the microbiome, restoring bifido bacteria, which seems to be lost in the vast majority of people these days.

Bifidus almost disappears completely in the elder. That's the bacteria I absolutely love and there's a reason for that which I can come back to later. But just to use a personal story. So I had with COVID and everything developed mast cell sensitive to histamine foods. So I reduced those. I mean I took them out completely. I had to cuz the itching was terrible. So, of course, I read about this list of foods that you have to avoid, and fermented foods are on that. But not all fermented foods are the same, and especially it bothered me that you've got to build your immune system. That's an absolute must. You need to have a strong, hearty, intelligent, resilient, resistant immune system. And so, nothing does that better than fermented vegetables. That bothered me a lot. the people were told not to eat them. And I thought, well, how will people really get well? Will they really have a healthy gut? And so on. So I've taught people for years how to make fermented vegetables a certain way. So I made them that way. And what I do is I take the shredded vegetables and then I make a separate brine with water and a bunch of apples to make it sweet. And then I put in our special minerals cuz they love the minerals are humic and fulvic minerals. And the bacteria love that. So I wanted them to grow. So I wanted to feed the microbes in the vegetables. But I also add a starter that we have a cultured vegetable starter. That's plantarum. And plantarum is gets its name because it's on plants. But when you add a whole bunch more, like I'm just adding a packet or so to the brine, then adding that into the vegetables that are cut up. Then you're adding you're starting the whole process with a tremendous amount of plantarum. Plantarum is an amazing superstar. It's their leader like a lot of other bacteria start doing what the plantarum tell them to do. I actually did some testing at Clemson. I think I sent two jars without culture in it and two jars with a culture. When the results came back, I was shocked. It was like hundreds and thousands of times greater, a richer culture, many many many more diverse bacteria were in the ones with the starter, which is funny cuz I didn't add all those other bacteria. But plantarum makes all the other ones grow. So I just started eating my fermented vegetables made with plantarum and I didn't have any problem. And then I found research showing that plantarum degrades histamine. So you see I was actually I don't know if it's because of the way I made them but it didn't cause a problem and out of that superstar plantarum. So that's I disagree with that what's being put out there. But yeah, a lot of them, kombucha, you do have to be careful, but maybe everyone's unique and you can try it and tell if you. And also the other thing is if you're really concerned, take an antihistamine 30 minutes before an hour before something and then try a little bit of the fermented vegetables cuz you really really will benefit from having them.

SIBO, SIFO, and Overgrowths24:00

When you first started your work, we didn't have terms like SIBO and SIFO as you mentioned. We didn't even have microbiome yet. But SIBO and SIFO, they seem almost ubiquitous in the chronically ill today, maybe even in many healthy people. I generally think of these small intestinal overgrowths as more the effect rather than the cause. thinking more upstream about the nervous system, the vagus nerve, our levels of stress, the migrating motor complex, bile flow, all of those things that potentially contribute to these overgrowths. But I'm wondering how you view SIBO and SIFO. How do you approach those? And is SIFO today any different from candida overgrowth that you talked about several decades ago?

SIFO is candida because that's the predominant yeast. And same thing, you got to be on a sugar-free diet. But I do like FODMAP, the FODMAP foods. And you can go and, you know, I even have an app on my phone that when I was first learning those FODMAP foods, I check it all the time in the grocery store. Is this one safe or not? And it seems like when you eliminate those FODMAP foods, you're going to have less bloating. So when I think taking even something like the Candida Clear would be a really beneficial supplement.

Do you think that small intestinal overgrowths are caused by the microbes or do you think there's other things and that's just what happens then?

No. I definitely think that the microbes get up in there and they're not supposed to be there. But the migrating motor complex is very slow. Most people are constipated anyway. And bile flow is really important. And we have a product called Livin that I take pretty religiously. I'll take three in the morning, three at

Bile Flow, Enzymes, and SIBO Prevention25:26

Bile stimulates bile flow for the liver, which aids in digesting fats and stimulates parasympathetic activity to move food along, reducing SIBO risk. If not producing enough bile, take enzymes like Ann Louise Gittleman's bile product or Jarro's bile product, especially after gallbladder removal. Ecoase is a bacteriophage that targets bacteria, ideal for SIBO.

Bacteriophages for SIBO and Infections26:03

Bacteriophages are viruses that kill bacteria; there are more bacteriophages on the planet than bacteria. Imagine 10 policemen around one bacteria to prevent it from becoming pathogenic. They are strain-specific. Body Ecology's product targets E. coli and others, common in urinary tract infections and SIBO. They inject a spike into bacteria, reproduce inside until the cell explodes, releasing more phages. Start with higher doses initially, then use prophylactically. Used since early 1900s or 1930s-1940s, but sidelined by drugs in the US. In Georgia (country), they are widely used; contact them for products. For Lyme, a woman in England at the tip researches bacteriophages for Lyme.

Desert Island Body Ecology Products28:31

Kefir starter for fermenting coconut water (assuming coconuts on island)—a magical food. Cultured veggie starter for cabbage and carrots; also works for coconut water. If only one, choose cultured veggie starter. Digestive enzymes are essential even if digestion seems fine; improve food movement and stools—buy if no money for anything else. LivAmend supports liver, processes toxins, produces bile essential for elimination; alternatives exist. Liquid minerals balance coffee; sprouted coffee (Body Ecology's, different flavors) reduces toxins from even organic coffee beans, feels completely different while retaining benefits. Add liquid minerals to make coffee alkaline.

Sprouted Coffee Uses31:32

Intended for oral consumption but suitable for enemas as it's the cleanest coffee; only sprouted coffee on the market.

Donna Gates' Long COVID Journey32:00

Got COVID at least three times without testing, recovered quickly initially but never the same afterward—continual chronic fatigue. Always had bouts from yeast, antibiotics; COVID unleashed candidiasis, Epstein-Barr, herpes. Practitioner (Lyme specialist) tested after shingles breakouts, positive for Borrelia and Bartonella. Herbs too slow; used SOT (serum therapy)—blood drawn, sent to Greece for strain-specific serum for Bartonella (chose due to symptoms and cost). Complementary to other health practices. Recommend for Lyme; suggested to Justin Timberlake's mom when he was diagnosed. Michael Fox example of poor progression despite best care. Practitioner got very sick (headaches) doing multiple serums (Bartonella, Borrelia, possibly Epstein-Barr). Do one at a time; retest at 6 months. Took Quicksilver's liquid cryptolepis inconsistently. Feels better; considering Borrelia serum and herbs like cryptolepis.

Other Therapies Tried38:02

IBu (California practitioner)—felt fantastic but didn't last. Local Duper Healing ozone—felt better each time but still struggled. Continue IBu 4-5 times then yearly for viruses (e.g., HHV-6 infects nearly 100% by age 3, activates with Epstein-Barr). Viruses like candida don't go away, cause major problems.

Microbiome and COVID40:02

Dr. Sabine Hazan: many lack Bifidobacteria; levels correlate with navigating COVID; COVID impacts microbiome, destroys Bifidus. SARS-CoV-2 attacks gut first via ACE2 receptors, reduces diversity. Bifidus precious, critical functions. For COVID or constipation, sip Bifidus powder (Body Ecology's, key strains) in quart jar of water all day. Used in coffee enemas too.

Spike Protein Removal42:32

SARS-CoV-2 may infect gut flora, acting like bacteriophage for persistent spike replication (Carlo Bonomo team). Peter McCullough protocol: curcumin, bromelain, nattokinase or lumbrokinase (or both) for spike in gut; effective after a year. Eat fermented vegetables—introduce healthy bacteria to kill SARS if present; protective despite histamine issues.

Endothelial Damage and Vascular Health44:01

Nattokinase and lumbrokinase good. Arterosil (several years old)—amazing results; cleaned plaque in man post-surgeries on heart meds after 2 years heavy use.

Cancer Prevention and Immune Support45:30

Viruses correlated to cancers; post-COVID increase possibly from spike-p53 interaction, turbo cancers, age-related immunosenescence. Eat fermented vegetables, take Bifidus. Lose gut diversity with age; damaged genes, weaker immunity, toxicity. Viruses may have purpose in decomposition. Body Ecology diet healthy, clean; works for Lyme, histamine intolerance. Always managing something as we age.

Age of Viruses and Taming the Dragon47:30

Viruses real, purpose; immune system keeps them in check (dragon in cave). Emerge in acidic environment. Wrong foods, lifestyle acidify, help viruses take over. SARS-CoV-2 weakened immunity, released Epstein-Barr, herpes viruses. Treat all viruses same: alkalize blood (avoid acidic: poor sleep, sedentary, acidic diet, stress). Viruses emerge seeking minerals; sufficient minerals keep them dormant. Taming the Dragon book (Kindle): for viral infections like flu, long COVID/haulers. Avoid foods feeding viruses; 4-10 days (4 often enough, feel better immediately).

Early Signs of Viral Activation and Initial Response52:00

When energy drops due to cell danger response, it's a clue to start addressing the virus. Alkalize the body by sipping apple cider vinegar in water and rest quietly to allow the immune system to recognize and combat the virus. Avoid this if you have serious histamine issues, as vinegar can trigger them. Histamine problems arise from acidity and stress, which make the body acidic; histamines are opportunistic.

Many people mistake Hashimoto's for autoimmunity, but studies show viruses like HIV, HHV6, and Epstein-Barr in the thyroid gland causing issues. Instead of thyroid medication, test for and control these viruses for health improvements.

Chronic Viruses and Key Approach Components54:02

Chronic viruses, especially herpetic ones like Epstein-Barr, herpes zoster, cytomegalovirus, play significant roles in health and disease. Approach to taming viruses: heal the gut, support the microbiome, avoid acidic foods, choose alkaline foods, adjust lifestyle to build energy, detoxify, use supplements wisely. Book Taming the Dragon recommended.

Building Immunity: Modulation Over Boosting54:31

Building immunity means modulating, not boosting, especially in autoimmunity—create tolerance and integration with the pathobiome. Example: low-dose immunotherapy for varicella zoster (shingles-related) normalized numbness/burning pain overnight; a few doses yearly prevent symptoms.

Don't boost the immune system as it may cause constant inflammation. Aim for a balanced, hearty, intelligent, resilient immune system that identifies pathogens effectively. Think of it as intelligent if healthy.

Immune Modulation Tools56:31

Black seed oil is a favorite for modulating immunity, bringing discernment, balancing TH1/TH2. Combine with oil of oregano; take aggressively (2-3 times/day, more than label suggests) initially when energy is low and virus active. Use combinations of antifungals/antivirals (nature provides abundantly), change every 5-10 days (pulsing) to prevent adaptation by pathogens.

Perspective on Autoimmunity58:30

Autoimmunity is a label, not root cause—often chronic infections, toxic terrain, loss of tolerance, hypervigilant dysregulated immune system. Look for Epstein-Barr, Lyme, toxins. Steroids/biologics suppress symptoms but may worsen infections driving it.

Body too smart to attack itself; term autoimmunity didn't exist widely before, now 80-100+ conditions (e.g., autism questionable). Hashimoto's example: 40%+ have viruses in thyroid vs. controls. Avoid gluten (good anyway), but test for active viruses (only detectable in bloodstream, not reservoirs). Try antiviral diet first; energy improves without meds.

Thyroid meds caused hair loss in personal experience. Explore Epstein-Barr, Borrelia, heavy metals for Hashimoto's. Autoimmunity symptoms resolve by addressing root causes.

Cell Danger Response (CDR)01:03:00

Cell danger response (per Dr. Robert Naviaux, discussed with Dr. Neil Nathan): protective hypometabolic state shutting down energy against threats like viruses, trapping them. Long COVID, ME/CFS, MS, autoimmunity = stuck in CDR1/2/3. Strategies: address root causes (e.g., viruses) to shift to healing cycle. Explains fatigue, brain fog in long haulers.

Vagus Nerve Support and Dysautonomia01:05:30

Infections impact vagus nerve (per Dr. Michael Van Elzakker's hypothesis). While addressing infections (viruses, Borrelia), support vagus: deep belly breathing (lie down, 5 minutes, belly rises/falls)—profound effect. Vagus runs from brain base to gut, innervating lungs, heart, stomach, colon; 80% gut signals to brain via vagus.

PEMF therapy (e.g., Spectra mat) relaxes, calms like pricier tools (e.g., TrueReka $3-400+). Used on 14-year-old arthritic dog—revived puppy-like energy, avoided euthanasia.

Antiviral Diet: Foods to Avoid and Include01:09:02

Acid-forming foods feed viruses: animal proteins (avoid despite popularity), nuts/seeds (high arginine—e.g., almond milk brings viruses out immediately). Vegetarian vegetable focus; results in 4 days. Test adding fish later.

Sea vegetables (Gimme brand packets/sheets)—mineral-rich, tasty, salty. Be salty/contractive (alkaline), not acidic. Low sodium on CBC harms energy; add salt to water/electrolytes to alkalize—viruses retreat.

Healing Gut and Microbiome01:12:31

Heal gut/leaky gut first: antiviral diet, short-chain fatty acids (butyrate, e.g., BodyBio), immunoglobulins, colostrum (helps dog too). Bovine immunoglobulins (e.g., MegaIGG, SBI). Combine with fermented vegetables (diverse bacteria heal lining, produce SCFAs).

Avoiding Acidic Foods and pH Monitoring01:14:31

Acidity promotes viral emergence/disease. No need for pH strips (Amazon-available, takes ~month to shift), prioritize diet change. Dairy: fat, sugars, casein (addictive, quoromphine), whey; human milk 70% whey. Inappropriate for lung/mucus issues but suitable for newborns (feeds bacteria, sticky/mucus-forming). Ferment (kefir > yogurt) for tolerance.

For autistic kids (mostly blood type A, poor on dairy; O's better): introduce fermented dairy slowly (1-2 tsp/tablespoon in soup/water, wait days) to adapt gut bacteria.

Acidity drivers: meats, sugars, grains, nuts, seeds.

Alkaline Foods and Minerals01:18:31

Alkalizing foods: dark green leafy vegetables (collards), sea vegetables. No need for HTMA if eating mineral-rich veggies; electrolytes/minerals alkalizing.

Vegetable Recommendations During Protocol01:19:10

Lacinato kale (flat kale, not curly) is low in oxalates. Include at least one dark green vegetable daily to add minerals. Vegetables, cultured vegetables, and ocean vegetables are key. Examples: salads with many vegetables or cooked vegetable soups. This phase lasts 4-10 days. Test tolerance with small amounts of protein, then return to normal healthy eating.

Antiviral Properties of Fats01:20:01

Fats like omega-3s, olive oil, avocado, macadamia, coconut oil, butter, and ghee have antiviral properties. They do not feed viruses, making them safe. Each has medicinal value:

• Coconut oil contains caprylic acid and monolaurin, effective against yeast and viruses. Cook with it, take a spoonful, or use monolaurin supplement for candida and viruses.
• Olive oil, butter: Safe, delicious, make food appealing (e.g., steam vegetables, drizzle with olive oil or butter, add healthy salt).

Healthy fats are immune-supporting and essential. Eat them generously.

Step Four: Lifestyle Changes to Build Energy01:21:31

Emphasize rest, sleep, breathing, meditation, exercise, vagal tone (including coffee enemas). Essential oils may help restore loss of smell from COVID.

Coffee Enemas Tips01:22:00

Use a one-quart bucket with tube (available from companies; used even with children in autistic program). Toxic material often surprises parents (body constantly produces toxins stored in stool; liver detox issues from stress, gut problems).

Tips for beginners:

• Lay down on mat/towel with underpad.
• Lubricate small tube with coconut oil, insert 5-6 inches.
• Release water slowly (critical to avoid immediate elimination urge; body shouldn't notice).
• Adults can take full quart (or more with second container); children much less.

Home enemas are easy/affordable. Colon therapy effective if done properly:

• Avoid: Letting all water out when client wants to release.
• Proper: Add water, release small amount when needed, immediately add more slowly. Goal: Fill entire colon for soaking (10-15 minutes), leading to abundant releases.
• Instruct colon therapists; some resist new techniques.

Do implants afterward (e.g., Bifidus after coffee enema, not mixed in).

Impact on Microbiome01:27:00

No concerns: Beneficial bacteria adhere to mucosal wall, unaffected by water. Small intestine bacteria (from fermented vegetables) repopulate colon.

Step Five: Embrace Detoxification01:28:00

Includes fasting, sauna, colonics, enemas. Fasting supports autophagy, clears senescent cells (zombie cells driving inflammation). Healthy gut = healthy immune system naturally eliminates senescent cells. Sleep/rest key. No need for drugs like rapamycin or satinib (unnecessary, unaffordable, inaccessible). Senescent cells contribute to aging; be mindful but prioritize basics.

Step Six: Supportive Supplements01:29:30

Antiviral cocktails (pulsing). Vitamin D essential; pair with vitamin A (needed to get D into cells). Sources: cod liver oil, butter, egg yolks (nature provides A+D together).

Vitamin A:

• Great antiviral.
• For persistent lung issues (e.g., cough post-cold): 50,000 IUs for several days.
• Used in autism community: High-dose vitamin A (few days) for viruses.

Eggs: Avoid initially (protein, acidic). Later, soft-cooked for digestibility, with fermented vegetables. Eats eggs daily (e.g., morning with fermented veggies).

Autism Spectrum Insights01:31:31

Rates risen from 1 in 180 boys to 1 in 12.5 in some places. Act early if suspecting symptoms (not present, OCD, inattentive): Change diet immediately, don't wait for doctor. Early intervention (1 year) can normalize child; window closes by 5 years (hormone changes).

Original group: 6 moms grew to 2,000 (parents/practitioners). Body Ecology Bedrock forum spread globally (Hong Kong, Canada, England, Australia). Kids 2-3 years old recovered (one 10-year-old fully). Pre-diet awareness; gluten/dairy removal helped somewhat, but candida, gut issues (many blood type A) key.

Successful Strategies01:34:31

• Start with fermented coconut water (use kefir starter; low sugar unlike others). Reduces cravings in 4-5 days; kids eat veggies (gut-brain effect). Women reported clean periods, resolved joint issues.
• Fermented vegetables: Serve with blue corn chips for dipping.

Doctors noticed improvements (speech, presence). Stories:

• Boy shunned by father, isolated with TV/videos. Mom used fermented coconut water (initially in junk juice, then preferred it). Ate soda crackers once, no setback. Father saw son wave "Bye daddy" from sidewalk, sobbed.

First boy now getting master's at Clemson. Twin daughters (one autistic) grown, off to college.

Frustrations: Info not spreading; competing medical/testing focus unnecessary. Prevention possible (e.g., Dr. David Berger in Tampa has no autistic patients).

Epigenetic Reset for Preconception01:39:32

Donna discovered during personal illness (bedridden months; prayed for help).

At conception (sperm+egg → zygote/embryo), miracle: First 5 days, all epigenetic tags (sticky notes on genes dictating function, e.g., reduce energy to 60%) from parents wiped clean. Clean slate; baby not paying for parents' sins (bad diet, toxins, viruses accumulated over life/generations). Explains weakening generations.

After day 5, tags return based on mother's diet/environment. Fathers key: Dysbiotic sperm carries tags (infections, toxins, bad diet); mother's vaginal microbiome rejects it → infertility. Preconception cleanup:

• Father: 3 months.
• Mother: 6 months (ideally longer).

Importance of Inner Ecosystem for Newborns and Parental Responsibility01:45:30

Nobody tells pregnant women how important it is to start the inner ecosystem as soon as the baby is born, and even beforehand. The baby's inner ecosystem develops over the next 2 years into their immune system, setting the stage for the rest of their life. Men and women have the ability to bring in another human being, an extraordinary responsibility that should not be taken lightly and must be honored. Culture needs to make it easier for parents ready to have a child. Working with autistic children sparked interest in root causes for sick children with autism, obesity, diabetes, brain neurological problems, PANS, and PANDAS. Parents should be scared enough to learn what to do for an epigenetic reset to start the child with a clean slate.

Women need to share this information because women are great at doing that. They need to turn to their partners and say, "Look, I want you to clean up your diet, too, because your sperm matters."

We can change everything with our children within a generation.

Epigenetic Reset in the Embryo01:47:31

The sins of the father do not have to be passed on; there's an opportunity for a clean slate. This epigenetic reset is triggered automatically by the embryo. As soon as the embryo forms, it has genes and enzymes that protect and clean itself of parental problems. Protective mechanisms against viruses and bacteria begin even before conception in sperm and egg. The placenta, formed by father and mother, protects and nourishes the baby, showing the father's early role to protect and nourish. The placenta pushes away bacteria and virus infections, getting rid of those tags. Tags come off easily by switching diet, lifestyle, reducing stress, prioritizing sleep, diet, and stress. Tags won't be added on; by the fifth day, new tags start being added.

Donna Gates' Daily Health Routine01:49:30

Daily routine changes, but currently:

• Morning: Shot glass of Tahitian Noni (no more than a couple ounces).
• Hydrogen tablet in water for energy (wake up dehydrated, so hydrate).
• Ecological Formulas Tri-Salts (missing salt), vitamin C powder, Celtic sea salt (Selina Naturally for salts like Mai kosher salt). Salt is the most alkalizing substance; sprinkle in hand for energy.
• Peptool for gut, removes galectin-3, cleans heavy metals.
• Squeeze lemon juice in.

After morning liquids, sprouted coffee with:

• Ripple pea protein (works better than other creamers).
• Creatine.
• Ancient Earth mineral liquids.

When super sick, lost 20 pounds in hospital refusing food; added creatine to build muscle without exercise, even in nettle tea (good for histamine issues) or chamomile at night.

Wait for hunger signal, then protein and vegetables:

• Canned sardines, salted, with cultured vegetables.
• Eggs with Applegate sausages.
• Applegate turkey slices with mayonnaise, cultured vegetables, sprouts (Whole Foods trays); roll into wraps or quick salad with olive oil.
• Dinner example: salmon, asparagus, cultured vegetables.

Incorporate cultured vegetables everywhere; quick options when low energy recovering.

Closing and Resources01:54:00

Host honors Donna Gates for decades of helping people, bringing light and positivity. Donna thanks host, feeling honored to be on the podcast with amazing people. Visit bodyecology.com. Leave positive rating or review. Support at betterhealthguy.com/donate. Newsletter at betterhealthguy.com/newsletters. Follow Better Health Guy on Facebook, Instagram, X, TikTok. Episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, Odyssey. Visit betterhealthguy.com.