Dr. Anthony Fauci in 2020 on COVID-19 | 60 Minutes Archive
In a Nutshell
Dr. Fauci states the U.S. pandemic is worsening with rising cases in 38 states and warns a national lockdown would require conditions to become "really, really bad." He criticizes the Rose Garden event as a super-spreader, calls the Trump campaign's use of his quote "outrageous," and confirms the White House has restricted his media appearances. He affirms masks work with "no doubt," notes his reversal from early guidance was evidence-based, and confirms he would take an FDA-approved vaccine after reviewing the data.
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Infections have passed the 8 million mark and are rising rapidly. There are more than 218,000 dead in the United States. Dr. Anthony Fauci has been the physician most Americans have relied upon for information during the pandemic. He is unhappily caught up in presidential politics under protection from death threats and forced to defend science itself. With 16 days until the election, the conversation began with a question about voting in person.
Dr. Fauci stated: "I'm going to try to vote in person. I like the atmosphere of going and voting." For someone who is 75 years old with hypertension and concerned about voting, he recommended: "Do an absentee ballot. No problem." He added that people could vote in person if they were careful.
Dr. Fauci has been a voice of logic and stability since the pandemic began. Worldwide, the number of new cases is surging at an alarming rate, as shown in a map by Johns Hopkins University. Russia reported a record number of infections this week, and cases are spiking in the UK, France, and Italy.
Dr. Fauci stated: "When you have a million deaths and over 30 million infections globally, you cannot say that we're on the road to essentially getting out of this. So quite frankly, I don't know where we are. It's impossible to say."
In the United States, infections are beginning to rise as the weather gets colder and people congregate indoors. Over the last two weeks, new cases have gone up in at least 38 states.
When asked how bad things would have to get to advocate a national lockdown, Dr. Fauci replied: "They'd have to get really, really bad." He noted: "First of all, the country is fatigued with restrictions. So, we want to use public health measures not to get in the way of opening the economy, but to being a safe gateway to opening the economy."
He emphasized that instead of having an opposition between "open up the economy, get jobs back, or shut down," public health measures should be used to "help us safely get to where we want to go."
Those measures were not in place last month in the Rose Garden when President Trump announced the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court. When asked if he was surprised that President Trump got sick, Dr. Fauci said: "Absolutely not." He explained: "I was worried that he was going to get sick when I saw him in a completely precarious situation of crowded, no separation between people and almost nobody wearing a mask. When I saw that on TV, I said, 'Oh my goodness, nothing good can come out of that. That's got to be a problem.' And then sure enough, it turned out to be a super spreader event."
President Trump returned to the White House after three days in the hospital with COVID-19 and soon started holding political rallies. The Trump campaign released a television ad featuring what appears to be a glowing remark from Dr. Fauci: "I can't imagine that anybody could be doing more."
Dr. Fauci stated his words were taken out of context. The ad continued to run in key battleground states. He clarified: "I do not and nor will I ever publicly endorse any political candidate. And here I am, they sticking me right in the middle of a campaign ad, which I thought was outrageous."
He explained: "I was referring to something entirely different. I was referring to the grueling work of the task force that god, we were knocking ourselves out seven days a week. I don't think we could possibly have done any more than that." When asked if steam started to come out of his ears, he replied: "No, it did. Quite frankly, I got really ticked off."
During the pandemic, the White House has been controlling when Dr. Fauci can speak with the media. He stated: "You know, I think you'd have to be honest to say yes. I certainly have not been allowed to go on many, many, many shows that have asked for me."
When asked about the frustration regarding restriction on the flow of information and transparency, he acknowledged: "You know, I think there has been a restriction, John, but it doesn't it isn't consistent."
Another point of contention has to do with masks. At the beginning of the outbreak, Dr. Fauci recommended against routinely wearing masks partly because he was concerned there would be a shortage of surgical masks for healthcare workers.
A month later, he reversed course after it turned out people without symptoms were a significant source of spread, and masks, even homemade ones, could help stop transmission.
He explained: "So, let's see if we could put this to rest once and for all. It became clear that cloth coverings, things like this here, and not necessarily a surgical mask or an N95, cloth coverings work. So now there's no longer a shortage of masks. Number two, metaanalysis studies show that contrary to what we thought, masks really do work in preventing infection."
When asked if there's no doubt about masks working, he confirmed: "No doubt." He added: "So when you find out you were wrong, you don't double down. When you find out you're wrong, it's a manifestation of your honesty to say, 'Hey, I was wrong. I did subsequent experiments and now it's this way.'"
The benefit of masks has been supported by evidence that under certain conditions, the virus can travel more than the 6 feet suggested by social distancing guidelines. Tiny aerosolized droplets can float like cigarette smoke across a room. Over time, without good ventilation, they can build up and pose a risk of infection. Research shows a mask can reduce that risk.
Dr. Fauci is optimistic about the early use of experimental therapies like remdesivir and the monoclonal antibodies given to President Trump. When asked if he found it ironic that the president who has not always consistently followed public health advice benefited from science, he replied: "Well, I don't think it's ironic. I think it's fortunate that the president of the United States benefited from science."
He added: "You know, I think deep down he believes in science. If he didn't, he would not have entrusted his health to the very competent physicians at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center." However, he noted that President Trump "hasn't worn masks consistently" and "pushed back against things you've said."
When asked what kind of statement this represents, Dr. Fauci suggested: "You know, a statement of strength, like we're strong, we don't need a mask. That kind of thing." He confirmed that President Trump "sometimes equates wearing a mask with weakness," adding: "Does that make sense to you? No, it doesn't. Of course not."
When asked if there is sometimes an all-out war against science, Dr. Fauci responded: "Oh, yeah. I mean particularly over the last few years there's an anti-authority feeling in the world and science has an air of authority to it. So people who want to push back on authority tend to as a sidebar push back on science."
Dr. Fauci is married to Dr. Christine Grady, a bioethicist at the National Institutes of Health. This pandemic has been rough on families across America, including theirs. They haven't been able to see their children very often. Dr. Grady cannot see her mom very often because she is 96 and in an assisted living facility with restricted visiting.
Dr. Grady described what frustrates Dr. Fauci: "The fact that, you know, the same message has to sort of be reiterated over and over again because either people don't hear it or they don't believe it or they don't adopt it."
Once an avid runner, at 79, Dr. Fauci now powerwalks, flanked by federal agents. He stated: "That's sad. The very fact that a public health message to save lives triggers such venom and animosity to me that it results in real and credible threats to my life and my safety, but it bothers me less than the hassling of my wife and my children."
When asked if there have been death threats against him and his family, he confirmed: "All of you, your daughters, not just me, but hassling, harassment against the rest of the family."
As the director of infectious disease research for the government, Dr. Fauci stated that not one pathogen he studied from HIV to H1N1 to Ebola has been as puzzling as SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.
He emphasized the need to figure out how common it is for people who have had the virus to be reinfected and study the long-term effects of the disease. He noted: "If you talk to a significant number of people, they will tell you that for anywhere from weeks to months and possibly longer that they have symptoms that are characterized by fatigue and a thing that they refer to as brain fog, which really means a difficulty concentrating."
He also mentioned: "The other thing that we're seeing that's a bit disturbing is that the degree of cardiovascular abnormalities by scans and by other diagnostic tests. It may be insignificant, but I don't know that now."
In 2016, during an outbreak of the Zika virus, Dr. Fauci showed the vaccine research center he helped create where for 20 years he has led a team of scientists developing vaccines for emerging viruses.
Four years before COVID-19 caused worldwide devastation, Dr. Fauci stated his greatest fear: "An influenza-like respiratory-born virus that's easily transmittable to which the population of the world has very little if any immunity against and that has a high degree of morbidity and mortality. Something similar to the very tragic pandemic flu of 1918."
Scientists at the NIH spent years preparing for this kind of pandemic. In January, before a single case of COVID-19 was confirmed in the US, Chinese scientists posted the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus. Based on their prior work on other coronaviruses, NIH researchers edited that code so it could be used to make a vaccine.
They sent the modifications to the biotech company Moderna which was able to manufacture the vaccine and start a phase 1 clinical trial within 2 months—a process that used to take years. That vaccine and three others in the US are now in phase 3 clinical trials to see if they are safe and effective.
When asked if he would take the vaccine if the FDA says it's okay, Dr. Fauci replied: "I'm going to look at the data upon which the FDA makes that decision. I trust the permanent professionals in the FDA. The director, the commissioner of the FDA has been very public that he will not let politics interfere. We have an advisory committee to the FDA who are made up of independent people who I trust. Put all those things together. If the final outcome is that the FDA approves it, I will take it."
Keep 60 Minutes in your library
Save the videos and channels worth coming back to, and find them again in one place.
