Joe Rogan Experience #2450 - Tommy Wood
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Joe Rogan welcomes Tommy Wood, author of The Stimulated Mind, focused on future-proofing the brain from dementia and staying sharp at any age.
Tommy Wood has worked in newborn brain injury treatment, traumatic brain injuries and concussions, long-term cognitive decline and dementia, and with elite athletes like Formula 1 drivers to maintain peak performance. Across these areas, core elements support brain development and maintenance of cognitive function, applicable daily to improve focus, well-being, and reduce dementia risk.
Dementia is a clinical diagnosis of losing enough cognitive function to be unable to care for oneself daily.
- Most common: Alzheimer's disease (60-80% of cases).
- Next: vascular dementia (10-20%).
- Others: frontotemporal dementia, Lewy body dementia, Parkinson's-related dementia. 70-90% of dementias are the first two types, directly tied to lifestyle and environment. 45-70%+ of dementias are preventable, mostly these categories.
Genetic components:
- Early-onset Alzheimer's: single mutation (e.g., amyloid precursor protein gene, presenilin genes); onset 30s-50s; rapid decline; ~1% of cases.
- Age-related Alzheimer's: environment-influenced.
- ApoE4 gene: 3 flavors (ApoE2, ApoE3, ApoE4); two copies inherited.
- ApoE4 amplifies brain inflammation; worsens CTE with repetitive impacts.
- One copy: 2-6x Alzheimer's risk.
- Two copies: 6-20x risk.
- ApoE4 is a risk multiplier, not deterministic; amplifies modern risks like excessive alcohol, inactivity, poor diet.
- Addressing risks offsets genetic risk; greater benefit for ApoE4 carriers.
- Family history increases risk, but includes shared environment/lifestyle (eating, sleeping, moving like parents).
Even with high genetic risk, lifestyle offsets much of it. Not everyone with ApoE4 gets Alzheimer's; most Alzheimer's patients lack ApoE4. Sedentary lifestyle/no stimulation causes dementia via atrophy, like muscles/bones weakening without load.
Modern world: overstimulated (input) but understimulated (no calculations, new ideas, creativity, problem-solving; just nonsense inundation). Brain function depends on stimulus, like any tissue (muscles, bones, liver, immune system). Challenge brain networks to enhance capacity.
Liver example: heavy drinking improves alcohol metabolism but doesn't keep liver healthy.
Historical error: giving cigarettes to asthma/lung patients (theory failed; better to breathe heavily).
Tommy studied early-life brain and elite cognition; saw life stages connect. Grandfather died of dementia: alcoholic brain atrophy + vascular dementia.
Modern issues: oversaturation with nonsense, no mind-challenging stimulation; AI solving problems reduces thinking.
Studies: AI (e.g., MIT essay study) decreases cognitive function/brain activity; less memory retention with more external aid (Google, ChatGPT). Using AI after own effort improves output (use as orthotic: write first, then ask 'what did I miss?'); engages brain, prompts reflection.
Uncharted territory: staring at hand 8 hours/day for rare unique/exciting content (e.g., 1/8 hours interesting for podcast). Algorithm uses randomness/method to keep scrolling; leverages social priorities (PRIME: prestigious, relevant, in-group, moral, emotional) for survival/group fitness, but delivers isolation.
Anti-human: no real feedback; easy to say horrible things remotely. Captures attention for wealth/influence (data as commodity).
Tools like social media can benefit: maintain connections (original Facebook); increase communication beyond in-person (net positive); cute dogs feed as 5-min break between cognitive tasks.
Future needs: processing speed, decision-making, working memory, emotional/social skills. Challenge/stimulate via new, challenging, creative skills (evidence for arts, music: improve aging-vulnerable networks for attention/social connection).
Invest in things you suck at, improve: maintains broad cognitive skills for any future.
Headroom: gap between daily needs (e.g., legs for toilet) and max capacity (e.g., back squat). Builds reserve for stress/sickness/injury.
Learning = neuroplasticity (new connections); driven by failure/mistakes. Brain is prediction machine; failure (expectation-reality gap, e.g., new jiu-jitsu move) frustrating but diverts resources to close gap, driving plasticity/network function.
Sucking at something → improvement stimulates/maintains brain.
How many? Broad base/talent stacking ideal (Range by David Epstein: success from broad skills before specialization). Avoid dabbling/giving up; expertise needed for max brain benefits (studies: tango dancers, painters, video gamers; experts > amateurs).
Learning curve steepest early (fastest gains), but expertise adds benefit. Pick 1-2 exciting long-term pursuits; similar core brain effects across skills.
Joe's wife learning French: exciting, complex (learning + interaction, sentence structure, differences from English); visible mental stimulation.
Time sink: 6 hours/day social media → fluency in Spanish (order at Takaria). Replace nonsense with uncomfortable puzzle-solving (synapse firing).
Stagnation: mundane job/people, no exercise, TV routine → slipping over 5-10 years; low stimulation lowers stimulability. Society normalizes this.
Cognitive trajectory: peaks mid-20s/early 30s (e.g., processing speed);
Cognitive peak tends to be higher and later with more time spent in education, building final capacity as professional learners. After peak, average decrease occurs. Tommy Wood and colleague Josh, a neurologist, wrote a paper theorizing population-level cognitive decline from that age happens because people go to work doing the same thing repeatedly, life gets in the way, and they stop investing in cognitive capacities like during childhood and school.
One theory of aging views it as continuation of development; brain refines connections based on environment and stimuli. Removing stimuli by not engaging in cognitively challenging activities leads brain to prune unused connections, causing decline. Studies show stimulating jobs with complex problem-solving, social interactions correlate with slower cognitive decline and lower dementia risk. Continuing reading, writing, lectures, dancing, hobbies also slows decline. Much expected age-related decline stems from stopping engagement and challenges with the world.
Physical activity follows similar path to cognitive function. Joe Rogan at 58 maintains physical ability similar to his 30s through forcing it, avoiding injury via competition. Capacity for work remains similar. Same applies to mind: use it or lose it. Mind needs constant intrigue and stimulation, like thinking for survival.
ADHD might be a superpower, especially hyperfocus. Rogan suspects he has it but functions well, focusing when interested or tired from activity. In boring classroom with uninterested subject, he'd be medicated without right parents. Hyperfocus likely persistent hunter trait: relentless tracking, persisting one more hour for animal in fading daylight.
Current ADHD picture is complicated. Family members on medication say their brain suddenly works. Stimulants like Adderall calm ADHD individuals, unlike others who get wired. Beneficial traits in right settings, but modern environment layers bright light at night, caffeine, stimulants. Majority with ADHD focus on interesting things without medication. Sliding scale with multiple reasons for symptoms.
Physical activity core to biology and physiology. Inigo Salmon Milan, exercise physiologist: physical activity baked into evolutionary development, so we invented exercise to prevent effects of not moving; lack of movement is disease-causing, pro-aging.
ADHD studies unclear on accounting for physical activity levels. Rogan: without exercise, he'd be a mess, possibly full ADHD, brain bouncing. Body has biological requirement to release energy.
All kids need physical activity regardless of diagnosis for biology to function. Systems make it hard. Before stimulants, suggest track, field, badminton for focus.
Stoics, samurai, ancient Chinese with kung fu emphasized physical activity for quieting mind. Prescribing medication dulls unmet biological requirement. Like hormone replacement: ethical doctors first adjust diet—remove inflammatory foods, high complex carbs, sugar, alcohol, smoking; increase protein, water—hormones rise naturally, as person was poisoning self.
All kids should get several hours of varied movement daily. Not that scientists/doctors disagree, but systems hinder implementation: time, resources, supervision.
Low testosterone often from metabolic disease, sedentariness, poor diet, but changing/supporting behavior hard. Modern environment drives bad behaviors despite knowing how to prevent/reverse diseases via lifestyle.
Nobody solved behavior change problem. Not just personal responsibility; for those without habit/environment, requires work, coaching. Physically doable, draw inspiration like Jelly Roll: from 500 lb to losing 300 lb without Ozempic/GLP-1s, by walking, cutting sugar, influenced by friend Cam Hanes (ultramarathoner), YouTube. Started walking block, hills; built up.
Starting hardest, but momentum builds excitement. Don't overwhelm beginners (e.g., no 100 push-ups day one for 500 lb person); gradual: walk, extend, add squats, adjust diet, track.
People know to walk/eat/sleep better but need process: how/when, time/environment barriers (unsafe walks, no kitchen). Different support levels for momentum. Need societal changes: food/built environments.
Appointed to committee: improve education quality/access at all levels, integrate physical activity (removed from many curriculums). Teach skills: cooking within cultural/dietary/financial constraints, taxes—start early with curiosity/skill-building.
Real world: multiple jobs, unsafe areas, little sleep, kids—can't do 100 push-ups. Provide opportunities, high-quality healthcare/psychological care.
Idea: government website input body weight, last activity, diet; outputs program, community follow-along, post results. AI adjusts: nutrients, protein/calories needs, food breakdowns.
Successful trials (e.g., weight loss) use self-determination theory: autonomy (choice in goals), competence (know what/how), relatedness (community support). LOOK AHEAD study: met often, potlucks, group activities, sustained weight loss.
Accountability apps risky: slackers leave to avoid buddies knowing. Need buffers/motivators.
Public gyms like YMCAs: tax-funded, free/sliding scale. Not financially infeasible. YMCAs had weights, tracks, pools, cheap classes (e.g., Boston, UK martial arts). Austin YMCA exists, downtown.
YMCA costs: $40-80/month depending on age/household—still much for some (food bill chunk). Should be subsidized/free, sliding scale. Okay if homeless use for showers (with caveats). Many insurances like Blue Cross Blue Shield offer gym memberships.
Health insurance offers reimbursements, discounts, or programs like Active Fit or Global Fit, providing $20 to $400 annual reimbursements. Some use health insurance to cover fees. Similar to Planet Fitness, gyms recruit but people often don't return. Goal is to encourage consistent attendance. For beginners unsure what to do, classes are key: learn new skills, move, make friends.
Gyms should offer multiple classes at the same time for beginners (e.g., dumbbells, shoulder press), intermediate, advanced, and various skills like yoga, Zumba, Pilates, Tai Chi. In Austin, public free gym equipment in parks and playgrounds. In New York City, similar setups exist.
People see extremes like professional athletes and think they must match that or do nothing. Data shows any movement above current levels benefits cardiovascular health, cognitive health, dementia risk. Educate that little movement moves the needle; starting small builds habit and enjoyment. Society emphasizes quick fixes, but fitness requires trusting the process: educate that it's long-term, results come eventually, leading to more energy and life improvements.
Cognitive benefits appear quickly: 6-second max sprint improves cognitive function immediately via better brain blood flow and arousal for focus. Walking outside improves sleep that night. Lifelong commitment needed, but immediate benefits encourage continuation, especially for those not investing in future selves.
Tommy works with Formula 1 drivers via Hinter Performance, founded by Aki Hints (H-I-N-T-S-A), named after Finnish orthopedic surgeon Aki Hints who worked with Mika Häkkinen (two-time F1 champion). Head scientist for motorsport from karting to F1. Provide coaching and medical services; drivers have dedicated coaches (strength/conditioning specialists, physios, nutritionists) traveling full-time, managing sleep, training, life.
Drivers primed by decades of practice (e.g., Lewis Hamilton 20-40 years). Identify performance limiters via blood tests, nutrient status. Avoid adding unproven tech; customize diets, training, warm-ups. Prioritize recovery: jet-lagged 9 months/year, sponsor/media demands. Targeted training maintains season-long performance; maximize recovery for adaptation.
Arrive 2-3 days early (Monday/Tuesday for Sunday race). Pre-travel: shift light exposure, sleep, exercise, caffeine to align with destination. Primary tools: exercise, light, caffeine, melatonin, meal timing (zeitgeber). Avoid eating on flights; eat upon landing at normal times. Flying meals often at odd hours disrupt circadian rhythm.
Rigorous exercise upon arrival (e.g., hotel gym hour) signals wakefulness, advances circadian phase. Cold exposure increases adrenaline/heart rate/arousal. Supplements limited to third-party tested (NSF for Sport, Informed Sport) due to WADA regulations; drivers tested strictly.
Peptides gray area, not tested for, contamination risks (tainted products). Lack high-quality human RCTs; focus on proven basics. Anecdotal benefits (e.g., DSIP/Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide for sleep/REM, BPC-157/TB-500 for tissue recovery) insufficient for pros. UFC uses Thorne supplements (third-party tested).
Key for complex skills: optimal arousal (Yerkes-Dodson curve, bell-shaped). Under-aroused: disengaged; over-aroused: anxious. Sweet spot enables flow/clutch states. Routines: warm-up sprints, music, bright light, breath work, cold (pre-cooling for hot races: 20 min at 20°C/68°F improves endurance without impairing cognition). Avoid exhaustive cold/exercise that fatigues brain.
Light Exercise Benefits
20-minute jog warms up, boosts sympathetic activation/hormones, improves cognition.
Caffeine (pills, gels, cappuccino, green tea for L-theanine to reduce jitters). Creatine mildly stimulating, benefits cognition especially in sleep deprivation.
Newer caffeine-related compounds like theacrine, theine, and paraxanthine (a metabolite of caffeine) may have fewer anxiety-promoting effects, high blood pressure, and high heart rate effects while maintaining cognitive benefits, especially combined with caffeine. These are harder to get third-party tested, and evidence is newer but promising.
Alpha-GPC and other choline sources (e.g., beta-choline) are preferentially turned into acetylcholine, important for focus and attention. However, third-party tested sources like NSF for Sport certified versions are rare for most supplements.
Formula 1 drivers have unique needs, so supplementation balances what moves the needle without overcorrecting. Stories exist of drivers having three espressos before a race and overcooking the first corner. Supplements are trickier because overdoing caffeine is hard to downregulate from physiologically (e.g., via breath work), potentially causing issues in the car. Focus is on physiological methods with minimal supplementation for balance.
Formula 1's high stakes make it ideal for developing precise frameworks (e.g., based on 168 pounds body weight, wake time, protein needs, eating cutoff hours before race). Protocols are individualized, but teams silo information—teammates are rivals in the same car, so data isn't shared. Hinsa succeeds by walling off approaches per driver.
Any deviation feels extreme in a Formula 1 race and could be disastrous.
Cognitive stimulation varies: many play video games, supported by evidence for improving function, but for drivers, it's often relaxation since real driving is more challenging. Most training is car-focused via simulator time and on-track sessions.
Cognitive tools are more used in driver development for sport-specific challenges. At elite levels, maintain driving skills through daily work, sustained physical health, and recovery from arduous schedules.
Focus on recovery: sleep, meditation, breath work, devices to gamify switching off (e.g., vibration tools). Examples include Turbosonic shaky plates and Shift Wave chair (used in sports and military; Joe Rogan has one) for downregulation and better sleep. Emphasis on physiological/environmental over supplements.
Real performance data is siloed within teams as sensitive. Best predictor across sports is subjective well-being (how the athlete feels: tired, achy, alert), outperforming or complementing blood tests, HRV. Aggregate data but prioritize daily feeling good and confident, via psychologists, body monitoring.
Do not coach avoiding toxic relationships directly, but fighters show poor success with them. Anecdote: high-performing fighter with crazy girlfriend who demanded attention, started fights post-weigh-in (when he was locked in), stormed to bar, causing freakouts and poor performance.
Fighters are crazy; high-level problem solving with dire physical consequences—similar to Formula 1. Drivers often enter via family relationships, overbearing parents/coaches.
Most challenging athletes are pulled in many directions, hard to engage long-term (e.g., NBA teenage millionaires doing whatever). Good plans made, but external distractors (toxic relationships, success lures like financial gain, recognition) demotivate follow-through.
Success reduces motivation: early career, train/eat freely on talent; sustaining long-term requires dedication to details. Frustrating when words don't match actions due to life priorities.
For NBA talents partying/spending: Tommy advises on data, not direct interaction.
Primarily face-to-face with Formula 1 drivers; advises teams in other pro sports on data, health, nutrition.
Differences vs. NFL/NBA/baseball: travel schedules, training, data capture. Formula 1 hard—individual per team, constant planes make blood tests difficult; no team aggregation like bigger sports with home bases.
Year-to-year: stay on latest research for needle-movers. Core is consistent boring basics (training program, sleep routine). Supplements address diet insufficiencies; improve data capture/analysis, support processes yearly. Rare low-risk, high-benefit additions (minimal time demand).
Paddock reality: coaches allow maybe one new thing—must be confident it works, or waste time.
Acknowledge trial/error, huge consequences (especially pre-car). Offset via practice periods (e.g., new car generation allows extended track time, low risk—no racing, 20 rivals). Identify important problems (e.g., reaction time off the line), hierarchy: highest benefit/lowest risk (practice, supplements, arousal tweaks).
MMA controversy: some coaches avoid fighters needing mental coaches as too fragile; want self-driven killers. Tommy: need baseline mindset to reach top, but psychologists common in Formula 1 (team or external); collaborates, shares notes.
Common issues: overcoming failure/fear, difficult relationships, thought processes. Most resilient are self-compassionate (mindfulness, common humanity, treat self as others; acknowledge mistakes happen, overcome as before)—contrary to hard-on-self killers.
Sustained success across sports favors this: big-picture thinking, past overcoming. Roger Federer quote from graduation address: won only 54% of points career-wide (lost 46%), so after every error, self-talk like "hey dude, you've got this."
History of self-beating gets you far, but accumulated pressure requires shift to treating self better for long-term overcoming.
Successful tournament pool players excel at letting bad shots go. Players who beat themselves up slump in their chair, run fingers through their hair, throw their head back, take deep breaths, and carry that negativity to the next shot. Joshua Filler from Germany, arguably the best or top two or three in the world, has the highest TPA performance score of about 850 out of 1000, meaning he makes 850 out of 1000 shots. Even the best play on 4-inch pockets and never get upset when missing; Filler sits with a dead look. Chinese Taipei (Taiwan) players are best at this—no expression when missing, just sit and maybe smile. American and some European players get pissed, fall off a cliff after bad shots, and get steamrolled.
This ties to the arousal curve: stress from a missed shot pushes away from optimal arousal for performance, dwelling on failure instead of the next shot. Even with good mechanics, thinking you'll miss causes a miss—nine times out of ten. At elite levels, all have skills; it's mental—fine motor skills under pressure. Psychology drives physiology and performance across cognitive domains.
Mental skills are foundational for high performance; everyone needs help occasionally. Different psychologists provide different tools.
Elite performers either figure out mental spirals hurt them and find methods, or never reach potential. Psychologists teach:
- Understand causes of mistakes and stress; stress diverts resources to what matters—leverage it, don't fear it.
- Stress-is-enhancing mindset (Alia Crum, Stanford): predicts Navy SEAL training success; view stress as rising to the occasion. Stress hormones still rise, but counteractive adaptations improve stressed decision-making.
- Reframe responses; after mistakes, recall past overcoming examples, understand human limits even at elite levels.
- Build routines for confidence, but balance—over-reliance (e.g., health optimization rituals) can backfire if unmet.
- In-the-moment tools for frustration (adrenaline swamps thinking): breath work, closing eyes, visualization—bottom-up physiological regulation.
- Pre-performance: warm-up, thinking, visualization.
- Post-failure processing.
High-stress failures, if harnessed, benefit the mind. Inspiration from others' stress performances shows human capability.
16-year-old broke world under-18 mile record at 3:48 (11th fastest indoor mile ever). Nuts—pre-Bannister, sub-4 impossible; now inspires sub-3:40. He approached casually, no pressure, nothing to lose.
MMA athletes benefit from video access to elite performances, raising standards via mirroring. Martial arts evolved more in last 30 years than prior 30,000—far superior balance in striking, grappling, wrestling since 1997 UFC work. Foundation set by predecessors; mind recognizes possibilities, rejects impossibilities (Roger Bannister effect).
Youth ignorance helps—no self-limitation worries, no burdens. Adults need more childlike curiosity, challenge-engagement for sustained performance.
Elite athletes inspired by superiors; general population demoted via social rank comparison (richer, more beautiful, jacked people). Triggers social stress like isolation: sympathetic activation, inflammation.
Difference: athletes see peers, set bars; others intimidated. Uncontrollables like looks/wealth worse—mind irrationally compares. Young girls get surgeries chasing filtered ideals, never satisfying. Jonathan Haidt's The Anxious Generation details social media's devastation: self-harm, suicidality spike post-introduction, especially girls comparing.
Athletes have resilience, competitive spirit; seeing elites inspires process emulation (Kobe's workouts).
Successful athletes focus on process over outcome—can't guarantee results (2012 Olympics: 2nd-4th personal/national bests, but Usain Bolt wins). Love process to get closer.
Outliers like Mike Tyson, Anderson Silva elevate entire weight classes to high contender levels.
Dummy copy shown—real book matches thickness. First part: neuroscience history, limitations (e.g., Alzheimer's as just amyloid/tau accumulation—ignores bigger picture).
Seminal Alzheimer's papers manipulated (figures altered, copy-pasted)—common issue, but amyloid/tau still part. Shift to cognitive resilience: function maintained despite proteins. Amyloid doesn't predict decline well.
Exercise key; also inflammation, brain cells. White matter critical for processing speed, executive function, prefrontal cortex—tied to vascular health, resistance training.
Book covers exercise types' brain effects, nutrition, cognitive stimulus (social connection), sleep, stress management/mitigation, in-moment performance.
Culminates in 3S model:
- Stimulus: cognitive challenges.
- Supply: stimulated brain demands more blood flow (oxygen, glucose, ketones, lactate)—needs cardiovascular/metabolic health (high BP/sugar biggest dementia risks). Nutrients: omega-3s, vitamin D, iron, magnesium, B vitamins (deficiencies raise decline risk).
- Sleep/recovery: adaptation, enhanced function.
Support is the third bucket, including sleep, hormonal status, and trophic factors like hormones or proteins that support neuroplasticity, such as brain-derived neurotrophic factor. Avoid inhibitors like chronic stress, which creates an overtraining picture in the brain, smoking, excessive alcohol, and air pollution.
These factors interact, so focusing on one impactful area shifts the whole network, as seen in multiple studies. Improving sleep decreases inflammation, improves blood pressure and blood sugar, and increases sociability, leading to more cognitively stimulating interactions. When tired, people shy away from such tasks. Studies in older adults show brain training programs improve sleep by driving recovery needs. Exercise also improves sleep.
Instead of a long list of 37 things that people ignore, recognize they communicate and interact—start anywhere to shift things positively.
The final book is about 450 pages and 165,000 words. Unlike most health books, every statement or study mention has a reference number linking to papers; the reference list is 2,000 papers long and hosted online due to printing costs, which is better anyway.
Very little was cut; Tommy wrote until the word limit, focusing on enduring important topics even with advancing AI and technology. Rabbit holes were trimmed by the editor.
The first part was rewritten three times; initially 40,000 words on esoteric psychology, then simplified. The core middle covers big rocks—key areas like those discussed—with practical frameworks. Introduction explains why care: for individuals over 40, dementia is the most important health concern; more than 10% report cognitive function changes; dementia rates will double or triple in the next two or three decades, plus some history.
Last chapter brings it together.
Many don't understand sedentary risks, but changes improve life quality, despite initial discomfort in trying new things, which alters brain function, holds off dementia and cognitive decline from atrophy, maintains or improves cognitive function even later in life.
Cognitive function graph rises to 20s or 30s then declines based on averaging tens or hundreds of thousands of people, pulling the average down as some lose function. But tracking the same individuals over decades shows maintaining function is normal.
Seattle Longitudinal Study by Warner Schaie measured the same people every seven years for decades, from 20s to over 100; more than 50% maintained cognitive function into 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. These data raised US retirement age in the 1980s, proving decline isn't normal.
Belief in inevitable decline leads to stopping engagement—"too old to lift, learn new skills"—creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Continuing processes makes maintaining function the norm.
Audio version recording now, out March 24th with the book Stimulated Mind.
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