Joe Rogan Experience #2499 - Marcus King
In a Nutshell
Joe Rogan interviews musician Marcus King, who shares his sobriety journey after alcohol-fueled relapses, mental health struggles managed via SSRIs (with plans to taper off), microdosing mushrooms, keto dieting, and exercise, emphasizing discipline over quick fixes like Ozempic despite its side effects and lawsuits. They critique prohibition's harms (cannabis scheduling, cartels), rock music's vitality, music industry snakes, and cultural double standards on porn vs. violence, while touching on dreams, VR, and childhood trauma fueling artistry. Key takeaway: Suffering and struggle build gratitude, creativity, and exceptional people like Jelly Roll or Charlie Crockett—embrace process-oriented virtuous ambition amid life's vampires.
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Joe welcomes Marcus King, thanks him for the guitar gift, calls it the dopest thing anyone's given him. Joe says he can't play and doesn't want to learn because he gets obsessed with things and his brain can't handle another task. Marcus loves doing things he's not good at to get good. Joe hates golf because he's bad at it and can't enjoy it until obsessed, which takes time away from other things. Jamie has a VR golf setup and is obsessive. Marcus's drummer is a good golfer. Golf consumes whole days, 3-4 days a week on the road. Comedians in Boston who got into golf stalled careers—played golf, drank, went to clubs at night but didn't write new jokes or obsess over career.
Marcus quit drinking a year and a half ago, has quit multiple times. Quit due to combo of being off the rails and health. Thought he could drink like a gentleman when he met his wife, but had destructive quality—wanted to burn life to the ground every time he drank. Joe notes he's seen that in others. Marcus attributes it to repressed emotions that alcohol unleashes when brain is off guard. Alcohol seduces: "don't need anybody, fuck everybody, that woman who married you, you don't want her." Joe suggests people wreck relationships to preempt heartbreak, like making fun of self first. Marcus confirms that approach for a while—didn't want to feel anything.
Opened for Allman Brothers in Raleigh, NC, sober 6 months, thought he could handle drinking. Famous last words: chugged jumbo White Claw, blacked out, hammered, pissed off wife. Woke up on friend's floor, she left with bus, wallet, ID—told him to figure it out. Bus turned around for him. She doesn't play games. Stopped drinking then—one night off leash showed he couldn't stop.
Joe quit for 8 months because club scene led to nightly shots for camaraderie, felt like shit, workouts suffered from hangover toxicity, anxiety, dopamine depletion worsened his pre-existing mental issues. Now has 1-2 drinks max, never drunk—managed it, wasn't alcoholic. Drinking like taking loan on good times, pay back with interest, physically not worth it.
Live performing gives anxiety, yet Marcus chooses it despite anxiety. Quotes Dan Soder: craves approval of thousands nightly because fucked up, needs people to say doing good job. Shift focus from seeking approval to love of art, giving love, everyone having good time, making lives better briefly. Marcus craves that—did Texas Honky Tonks run for sweaty rooms enjoying music, sticky floors.
Marcus reached out after Joe said rock and roll dead; Marcus: "Fucking rock and roll ain't dead." Invited because southern-inspired rock thriving: Red Clay Strays, bluesy country rock. Rock now different—not like high school Van Halen, AC/DC, Stones era big bands. Marcus hopes it's coming back. Classic rock like Freebird, Lynyrd Skynyrd still gets crowds nuts. Cyclical industry. Cowboy hats now chic in LA after 10 years mockery post-Urban Cowboy.
Led Zeppelin at Royal Albert Hall like jam band. Allman Brothers too—Marcus's shows have songs to reach improvisational sections working crowd chemistry. Zeppelin not labeled jam band like Widespread Panic, Phish, Grateful Dead. Greta Van Fleet sounds like Zeppelin but great, get pass. Marcus knows them, partied together in Nashville. Guitarist Jake Kiszka sweetest guy, into pirate stuff, gave Marcus housewarming real antique musket pistol.
Jamie looks up: modern musket pistol reproductions $195; 17th century pirate flintlock sold $416. Seems cheap for 1600s. Conquistadors took Mexico with 12 such guns, lost 100+ indigenous languages. Antique pirate muskets cheap due to reproductions. Store in Austin, Collector's Crossroads, has muskets, armor, guns, cannons, crossbows, swords, George Washington swords?, Middle East/Central Asia sword with dragon mouth handle. Crossbows shitty guns. Holding history: 400 years ago, top way to kill. Weird guys recreate wars—Marcus grew up with obsessed kid Maurice whose military father wouldn't accept him (physical?).
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77% American kids can't pass military physical. Joe failed presidential fitness test as kid—hung on pull-up bar, couldn't do one. Test: 10-year-olds need 22 push-ups, 45 curl-ups (sit-ups for abs), 6 pull-ups or 45 chin-ups (pull-up palms away, chin-up palms toward), 8-minute mile. Standards tough, many kids fail.
Tim Dillon discussed Palantir wanting universal national service, interpreted as draft. Joe against, especially post-Iran war questions. No wars since WWII made sense. Draft in today's culture? Combat needs able-bodied men, drafting women insane—sexist or inclusive? Tech dorks call for it but won't go themselves. Better: tech prevents wars vs. forcing kids to shoot strangers on command.
People happy to see you need to actually see combat. Why listen to software makers? They make weird surveillance software raising concerns about surveillance power. Tim Dillon went deep on it—highly recommend his show, funniest take on world chaos. His podcast is phenomenal, must-listen every week. Even better watching. He did a hilarious bit on giving Ozempic to babies.
Dad did Ozempic: curves appetite but you can eat through it, won't feel great but keeps going. Tim Dillon tried it—stopped desire for food and everything else. Some see good in GLP-1s for addiction, curbing desires beyond food like alcohol and gambling.
Marcus King tried it while quitting drinking and working on a record—curbed desire for drinks but caused bad stomach cramps. At that time, not concerned about what he put in body (said while smoking cigarette). Natural Spirits cigarettes are additive-free, safe and effective.
Wonder about easy fixes—maybe works, maybe lifelong side effects. Some experience wild side effects like stomach paralysis. Brian Simpson got pancreatitis, sick in bed for two weeks. Long-term effects unknown because new. Dosages too high; doctors give standard dose, but smaller dose better for just curbing appetite, not complete cessation. Getting to high dosage fast harmful. Or have discipline—try eating less without killing body, stomach, or causing blindness.
Lawsuits coming because severe side effects. People vary biologically.
- Vision problems: permanent blindness in one eye, eye stroke, non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy (sudden painless often permanent blindness in one eye).
- Acute pancreatitis (Brian Simpson's case).
- Gallbladder problems.
- Gastroparesis (stomach paralysis).
- Bowel obstructions.
- Potential thyroid tumors.
Mild GI issues common; severe complications more frequent at higher doses, require immediate medical attention. Pharmaceutical versions high dose—argument for compounding pharmacies. New one: Retatrutide (Eli Lilly investigational once-weekly injectable triple agonist targeting GLP-1, GIP, and glucagon receptors). Phase 2 trials: up to 24% weight loss. Predicted trillion-dollar medication. Doesn't cause muscle loss or bone density loss, more effective.
Or have some fucking discipline. Go to the gym, eat better, be healthy. Do what Jelly Roll did.
Jelly Roll down 300 lb, runs five miles a day, works out every day, looks fantastic, like a different person—from 500 lb to 200s.
Marcus saw Jelly Roll perform New York New York at Kill Tony in the Garden (house band)—custom big suit then, now transformed. Marcus does keto-like diet, eats big salads, down 25 pounds on his own, no nutritionist. Been husky since kid, shopped husky department at Kmart. Psychological—food only control as child, scarcity mindset. Easier to avoid bread etc., hurts stomach, feels better without, more energy. Body on ketones, brain functions better. Ketone IQ shots put into temporary ketosis—exogenous ketones.
Guy who invented exogenous ketones died—worked for Balco Labs, developed the clear (steroids Barry Bonds took). Patrick Arnold, greatest chemist per Mark Bell: made cream and clear for Bonds/McGwire, prohormones, brought exogenous ketones to market. Died at 60, cause unknown (recent, not released). Looks healthy in photo.
Carnivore diet improved brain function immediately—eats sausage/eggs from animal he shot (e.g., sable).
Balco developed undetectable steroids around 2000 (Bonds/McGwire era). Tests look for specific molecules; they added things so wouldn't show—the clear. Victor Conte ran Balco lab, went to jail, later anti-steroid, ratted out athletes, sold legal performance supplements.
Marcus gets steroid shots (cortisone in ass cheek) before shows if voice out—brings voice back.
No warm-up routine—two cigarettes, used to be shot of whiskey. Dire straits: handful sugar-free gummy bears in boiling water to coat throat like honey/ginger/lemon. Hot water/lemon eases. Time off fucks voice most—vocal cords like muscles, get out of shape without use. Pandemic first extended road time off, came back hurting. Must scream in garage to maintain.
Axl Rose voice not the same (saw Guns N' Roses Athens, Greece—crazy style hell on voice, show amazing). Steven Tyler quit singing to heal, back strong—played with him January, singing ass off. Mick Jagger at Circuit of the Americas: still wails, surreal energy, two trailer trucks of gym equipment everywhere, works out seven days a week (180,000 years old). Keith Richards: whiskey, cocaine, LSD—no problems.
Find something you love and stick with it.
Willie Nelson: 18 tractor trailers but bare stage, seven-eight truck drivers—must be all weed, grow lights/plants. Willy's Remedy weed drink legit (Ron White brought to Comedy Mothership green room).
Marijuana now Schedule 3—great step, regulate like alcohol, adult use 21+. Issues: alcohol lobby cuts sales, prison guard unions want jobs via incarceration. Evil—laws don't make sense. If alcohol legal, weed should be personal choice. No adult should lock you in cage for it. In free country, shouldn't be illegal—regulate, 21+, taxes huge for states, stop locking up for personal choices (rare now but too many laws).
CBD flower technically legal—put cannabis in CBD container. Texas laws: THC by volume—10mg gummy legal, fucks you up (non-smoker). Lainey Wilson movie: girl jailed for driving impaired by weed gummies (depends on dose—200mg like eight shots whiskey).
Don't drive on weed or fucked up. One drink: relaxed but varies by tolerance. Personal responsibility bottom line—no 500mg edibles driving.
Drummer's THC spray on ferry France-UK (hammered): kept spraying, thought nothing, woke in bed completely removed from reality.
Pre-2016 California medical: easy prescription (headache/backache). THC breath strips on plane: eyes closed, watched neon cartoon characters orgy in void, shifting shapes—psychedelic, world normal when eyes open. Six-hour flight to New York, sobered by landing. Inconsistent dosing—hippies pouring weed, forget/add double. Microdoses in Georgia varied strength.
That's why we need legalization regulation. Whiskey shot: know exactly effect, same for hundreds years. Outlawed: some wine, some moonshine.
Laws against personal choices stupid (good laws: no murder/rob/rape/vandalize). Armed thugs bursting for joint after dinner Netflix—dumb, bad for society. Creates this business. Once a
Once a business of enforcement is established, people whose jobs depend on enforcing nonsensical laws protect their livelihoods, creating a quagmire with no easy way out other than legalizing it and ripping the band-aid off. Prohibition props up cartels because demand persists despite federal illegality. Legal companies provide healthcare and regulations but can't participate federally, so cartels grow over 80% of illegal weed sold in the US on California public lands, where it's a misdemeanor. They use toxic pesticides and herbicides banned in normal farming, all due to stupid laws.
Now schedule three, like Tylenol with codeine, better than schedule one. More testing and studies could lead to federal legalization and regulation, like alcohol, generating tax revenue without criminalizing personal choices.
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In 1970, Nixon's Controlled Substances Act scheduled DMT, psilocybin, LSD, ibogaine as schedule one (no medical benefit, harmful, addictive) to target civil rights and anti-war movements. Government feared organizing, marches, and '60s counterculture rejecting parental unhappiness for freer lives filled with love, joy, following Grateful Dead.
Music shifted radically from 1950s (Buddy Holly) to 1960s (Jimi Hendrix), due to psychedelic drugs, like stoned ape theory in modern society. This terrified the administration, leading to the 1970 Act. For 56 years, stuck under this law that included non-psychoactives and missed potent ones like 5-MeO DMT, once buyable online from American Chemical Company in jars—pinky nail amount blasts you to God.
Salvia, insanely potent psychedelic (same genus as sage), once sold in head shops. Ari Shaffir on Bryan Redban's podcast took a hit, lived six months underwater with community, relationships, job, returned confused after 10 minutes.
Woman in medically induced 3-week coma dreamed 7-year lifetime: gave birth to triplets Mila, Miles, Miley (Miley died), felt physical/emotional pain, skin-to-skin contact, overwhelming love. Watched daughters grow with personalities, shared walks, meals, bedtime stories. Woke, learned they never existed, told parents they were grandparents, in shock.
Makes you wonder what reality is—this channel on infinite radio? Sleep might be as real as awake; idea of shutting off nightly is bananas. Lack of sleep compromises reality: dumber, poor memory, tired, no energy, can't wait to pay back the void.
Dreaming of snakes means shedding skin, entering something new, growth—or surrounded by people who want to get you. Music business full of snakes: artists are open, giving, emotional, but must be sharks for contracts (7 years with options/extensions), song rights. Pressure: sign the line, make money, big house, fancy car, Rolex. Bet on yourself, take the money.
Late Night with the Devil (2024 Australian film): 1977, failing late-night host Jack Delroy films Halloween special that unleashes evil. Scary, heavy, dope movie, watched on bus.
From (4 seasons, renewed for 5th final in 2026): On Apple TV, Epix, MGM+, YouTube Red (2018), Paramount+ Canada, Amazon Prime India. Stars Harold Perrineau (dude from Lost). Terrifying, original, creepy: people stuck in nonsensical town, can't leave; nighttime monsters from woods trick you into letting them in to butcher you. Causes anxiety, weird dreams, especially with children in trouble.
Forensic Files puts Marcus to sleep, comfort show about murders. HBO's autopsy show with Dr. Michael Baden: forensic scientist exhumed bodies, caught murderers who got away—wives poisoning husbands, nurses poisoning patients under care. People are weird; many get away with it.
Approximately 40-50% of murders in US go unsolved (half of homicide cases no arrest/resolution).
Story: Wife missing, husband's chainsaw had her DNA (no body), he's in jail awaiting trial. Friends know family, question evidence—could be accidental scrape. Some believe he chopped her up after fights.
Sister said, "I hope you go to jail for something you didn't do." At 9-10 years old. Locked Marcus (5-6) in vacant house fence: "This is where you live now," tricked him into breaking window with brick to tell on him.
Sister now drives for Department of Transportation with CDL, badass, smart, creative, horse. Friend gave welcome mat: "This is where you live now." Mom was wild; interesting upbringing.
Most interesting artists had imperfect childhoods: psychological torture, abandonment, touchy uncle, ignoring, not feeling special/burden—drives need for attention from strangers. Great stuff comes from that; cannot have good without evil, part of human condition. Don't appreciate good without bad.
Rich kids lack struggle/motivation, hard to be exceptional. After 6 rainy days hunting in Alaska with Steve Rinella and Brian Call, sunny LA felt incredible—sun on face filled with gratitude. Need suffering to appreciate good; need evil people to value beautiful/kind ones, mean to value nice.
Meditate on perspective daily. Businesses (music, comedy, movies) need rotten vampires for camaraderie with real people—no agenda, kind.
It's like we're together now, all right. We're okay. It's trauma bonding. We're away from the vampire shit. Like my boy Charlie Crockett, you know, Charlie always says you can do what they do, but they can't do what you do. Charlie's great. He's the man. He's an interesting dude with an interesting life. Playing street music for so long, then finally getting discovered. That's how you get a person like that. When you talked about his childhood, how fucked up it was and crazy. He was basically just on his own from the time he was a teenager, running around just singing songs. You can't create a Charlie Crockett in a lab. Or a Jelly Roll. They got to go to jail first. But Jelly Roll is one of the most beautiful people I've ever met. One of the nicest, sweetest, kindest, warm, affectionate people. He hugs everybody, tells everybody he loves them and he means it because he's been through hell. That's how you make a person like that. Jelly's in a constant state of gratitude like when you run into somebody after they've had an ayahuasca experience. He has this constant gratitude that fades even with people who have ayahuasca journeys. There's something really pure to that. He's maintained it, especially now on his health journey. Sometimes the momentum of life takes over and you forget those beautiful moments where you realize you're so lucky to have a beautiful family, friends, and to do what you do for a living. That feeling goes away dealing with contracts and shit, then New York Times wrote a hit piece on you. You lose your perspective. You need those shitty elements to reinforce the good ones. There's a constant process of pros and cons, negatives and positives duking it out. The more negative comes at you, the more it creates desire to excel with your music or art to push past it. Think about great songs written about struggles even in the music business, like Lynyrd Skynyrd working for MCA. Leashik Freak Out. They weren't allowed into Studio 54, so the song was originally written as fuck you, but became Freak Out and a major hit because they couldn't get into a club.
It's about threading the needle of wanting more for yourself for the right reasons. Having a virtuous reason to want more, not for hoarding wealth. Want to work to a place where my wife and I can have our own bus and raise kids on the road, but you can't do that without a certain profit margin. Always trying to think of virtuous causes to want more, while meditating on things I'm grateful for every day. People get trapped working towards a result instead of thinking about the process. Try to be process-oriented, be better at whatever you're doing, and the other stuff takes care of itself if you have the right people. That's where the evil vampire shit comes in because they'll steal all that goodwill if you leave the door open. They'll tear you apart. It's hard because you don't want to become jaded. Meet people who are open and kind but not interested in making new friends, they have their circle. You got to maintain perspective not to become angry. Hard to know who to let into your circle, got to give people a stress test.
Ran into this guy recently. Years ago on Jam Cruise, super fucked up, supposed to sit in with Naughty Professor from New Orleans, outrageously talented musicians. Went on a catamaran adventure that morning, snorkeling in Cayman Islands with girlfriend at the time and bass player friend from Lettuce named Eric who goes by Jesus. They were tripping on acid, I was drunk on rum and beer. Drifted far from the boat, couldn't get attention, storm rolled in with big waves. Not the strongest swimmer, treading water for 40 minutes, going to drown. Guy jumped off boat, yelled at me for no flippers, just shorts and goggles. Pulled us up. Celebrated life, got hammered, needed pick-me-up to sit in with college-educated jazz musicians. Guy offered yatuski, pulled out spoon, big snort, face went numb, stung. He said just a little blow, but grabbed him by shirt, what the fuck did you give me? He checked with buddy, wrong bag, the blue one was ketamine. Went totally the wrong direction. Ran into him at Grand Opry in dressing room, Hey remember me? Wrong bag? Yeah, I don't like you, put me in weird spot. Taking ketamine after almost dying was heavy, became part of the boat, feet in the deck, moving the whole boat with every step. Guy kept trying to get me to play festival in New Mexico, put him off, then his eyes got big like saucers, said some crazy shit or not English at all, ketamine talk.
Ketamine's weird, lots of people doing it for therapy now. Neil Brennan, comedian, co-creator of Chappelle Show, first told me about it for his lifelong depression problems. In hallway of Comedy Store in LA, said he's doing ketamine therapy. Thought it'd be closing eyes in doctor's office, but full-blown trip, tripping balls in doctor's office is strange. Worked for a little while. He's done tons of ayahuasca, ketamine, magnets on his brain, bunch of things to rewire his brain.
On antidepressants, want to get off them. On Symbalta, an SSRI for chemical imbalance. Best work combating depression and anxiety was microdosing mushrooms, most progress seen in life. Need strategy because can't stop all at once or could have seizures, don't want to be enslaved by pharmaceutical drug, now take this rest of life, what's the end result? Theo Von going through same thing, freaks out. Had Netflix taping that got shelved, people said he bombed but think he had breakdown. Video of him shaking, crowd said we still love you, he said thank you, I'm just trying not to take my own life right now. Known too many people who didn't think would kill themselves and did. He goes down spirals talking world events. Send him info on getting off them, doctors specialize in it. Chemical imbalance not real, used to think SSRIs treat it but studies show not what they do, don't know exactly, numb you in some way that helps some. Friend Ari was suicidal, tried bunch of SSRIs, one worked, career took off, positive path, weaned off, now off them, might have saved his life. Others on them took own lives, side effect is suicidal ideation. No good evidence for simple chemical imbalance like low serotonin causing depression. SSRIs change brain chemistry to help some, but chemical imbalance story oversimplified or outdated. Depression connected to state of your life: terrible job, bad relationship, abusive parents, shitty neighborhood. Why would you be happy? Oh you're depressed, need a pill? Maybe eating processed foods. Make life positive, exercise way more effective than antidepressants. Just go on long walk, cardio, yoga class. Doctors financially incentivized to prescribe, hand out like candy. If no financial incentive, would be take for six months. Even then, how long to get off? Guy on them 10 years, took year and half after to feel normal, rode it out, not going back. Hard to compare because everybody's brain chemistry different. Tried three or four before one felt like me. At grandmother's funeral felt nothing, numb, realized this woman raised me and can't feel anything. Put them down, two weeks later at dinner Wayne Shorter melody uncorked everything, sobbing. Before taking them, substance abuse, really anxious, suicidal, really depressed, overwhelming dread every day, helplessness going to doctors. Rely on depression for writing and creating. Fear it'll take drive away, no substance to create for. Strange battle, much better spot now.
One now, if go a day without, withdrawal severe: headaches, body tingling, scary. Wean off slowly. Microdosing mushrooms gave lasting result, now recognize anxiety attack as outside energy not aligning, work through it. Not drinking, exposure therapy to social interactions without masking with drugs and alcohol helped. Been sober year and a half. Stuff alleviated emotions from substance abuse which caused angst and anxiety. Afraid if get off, emotions flood back. They come back every now and again even on it, but significantly curbed. At what price? Talking to Earnest, kindred spirit. Working out, feeling good, listening to Stones, see punching bag in gym at house, mental note it would hold my weight. Suicidal thoughts pop in and out quick, even month ago. Had them before medication too. Helping to a degree. Really about will, mental ability like diets. Ozempic curbs appetite but can exercise and have willpower. Mental health similar. Ozempic curbs desire to be in love, don't enjoy anything. SSRIs like genitalia paralyzed. Saw on Twitter lady got off, clitoris numb, can't have orgasms anymore.
Discussion on uncertainty of regaining natural state after SSRI use and medications that trigger it. Protocol involves weaning off slowly. Doctor checks in every few months, asks how patient is feeling, advises slow taper if wanting to stop but cautions against change if things are good. Worry about withdrawal effects after long-term use, like a guy on SSRIs for 10 years who had a rough year and a half with body in shock; Theo described it as the floor falling out. He got off briefly a year ago but went back on. Comparison to plot device in Ozark where character pours medication down drain and goes nuts. Term "off their medication" is pejorative, depends on medication like anti-psychotics for schizophrenia.
Exercise: 20 minutes on Peloton daily, different muscle group each day. Cardio great for depression, weights good for anxiety.
Definitive difference when working out vs. not.
Plan to quit during time off, but working rest of year; being on road is constant, could try then but fears breakdown leading to show cancellation in Nashville. Doctors incentivized to keep patients on meds, financial incentives, justification process, position of expertise. Dismiss concerns with "slow down, everything's fine." Society hypermedicated, injectables trending due to peptides, Ozempic craze; pharmaceutical sales shifting to them.
Grew up seeing dad and grandfather inject insulin for type 2 diabetes, which can be cured by stopping poor eating. Goal to prevent type 2 diabetes, no sugar intake. Ketogenic diet good for depression. Takes magnesium, multivitamins.
Doesn't want to be prisoner to pills, loves wife, excited for babies; her career taking off, his going well. Wife anti-pharmaceuticals. SSRIs during pregnancy linked to children's brain development issues. Millions on them, giant business hides side effects and psyche impact. Guess on US SSRI usage: 30-75%, actually 13% of US adults (2015-2018 data, similar in 2020), SSRIs most common antidepressant class. Higher in arts community, ~70% artists struggle with mental health. Social media targets mental health like heroin.
Many seek quick fix; factors include lifestyle, choices, situations like birthplace, job, limited opportunity, shitty people. Tools to escape: starting business, music, art, surround with positive people, better choices. Can't expect happiness if life sucks.
Easy to say avoid comments but hard, especially on phone; necessary for touring, fan engagement. Algorithm demands engagement, social media teams push responding. Wants to be authentic, necessary evil. Ruins brains, rots you, absorbs world negativity, grifters, psychopaths stirring shit.
James Brown 80s interview post-arrest, out on bail ("I'm out on love"), talks to women in audience, clearly high.
Started music at 2-3 years old. Grandfather career Air Force staff master sergeant, played honky-tonks weekends, booked NCO clubs (Charlie Pride, Johnny Cash, Barbara Mandrell), his band opened/backed them, country and western purist (1960s). Dad born 1953 (now 73), Marcus born when dad was 43. Family associated music with secular lifestyle, shifted to church music when born again around Marcus's birth, but he was drawn to other stuff.
Music closest to divinity, conviction like church, transcendent group experience live with great musician.
Music like beautiful drug; right song on treadmill gives energy (e.g., Little Feat "Skin It Back", Rolling Stones "[Some Girls]", Tool "Prison Sex" great for weightlifting). Knows Danny Carey, Tool via Brent Hinds. Recommends Mastodon.
Brent Hinds (Mastodon) died September, took him on road before; mutual agreement left band, doing solo. Took him out as hero, but kicked off tour. Night in question: tour manager Angela cried, found Brent peed on dressing room floor, then peed in own mouth as party trick (Matt Pike from High on Fire called it "Wednesday move"). Offended her, last straw after partying too much. Loved him like brother, misses him. Wild crazy people make moving art.
Need friends wife doesn't love hanging with to make magic.
Rick Rubin voice of consumer, knows what he likes, unique mind/perspective. Sends wild conspiracy texts, sometimes need to correct, but questions reality. Valuable for shaping music production. Music not science/math/carpentry, involves weirdness, love, hate, intangibles; when you hear it, you know (e.g., riffs: Voodoo Child slight return intro, Dan Auerbach, Josh Homme Stone Age).
Colonel Bruce Hampton philosophy like Rick: music like pro wrestling. In Sling Blade. Died on stage at Fox Theatre Atlanta (predicted it). Born with two birth certificates, wild man, "outstruction" vs instruction. Billy Bob Thornton documentary Basically Frightened (2003), critiques music business "coffee getters." Buys DVDs on eBay to give away (not streaming, $215 Amazon suspect). Guru to Widespread Panic, Jimmy Herring, Oteil Burbridge (now in Marcus's band). Southeast's Frank Zappa/Sonny Rollins. Noticed Marcus at 15, died in Germany tour.
Music inspires creation/action (write, perform). Paul Mooney advice: to entertain, go be entertained (see movies, bands).
That's process in studio.
For their last record, they used a projector to play films that inspired them like Giant with James Dean, Easy Rider, The Big Lebowski. Waking up reading East of Eden and other great architects of Americana. Watching live concert footage of bands like Marshall Tucker Band, Skynyrd. Inundating themselves with inspiring stuff to get juices flowing and summon the muse. Sometimes played footage of Midnight Cowboy and recorded as if scoring the film for a different approach.
Midnight Cowboy is a wild movie from when Times Square was dirty, now it's one big Applebee's. Back when people watched pornography together in theaters. In early days of pornography, couples went out to see films like Deep Throat, including Johnny Carson. There were always stag films for bachelor parties. People tried making artistic films with sex, which society finds abhorrent today. Violence and gore in shows is fine, but actual sex like someone sucking dick and coming is terrible.
The Brown Bunny, Vincent Gallo's movie, had a real sex scene where Chloë Sevigny blows him for real. People were horrified, but if it was violence like beating him to death with a baseball bat, it would be praised as a crazy movie. That scene ruined Vincent Gallo's career; he was in many movies before but vanished from Hollywood. Society accepts violence like in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where Brad Pitt bashes a woman's head and brains her, but actual sex with visible penis and vagina would be crazy. Simulation with hips and kissing is fine. Even if Brad Pitt and his wife had real sex, it would be disgusting smut; her shooting him would be okay.
Deep Throat's name came after Watergate (Watergate 1974, movie 1972). In 1972, ideas of pornography were different. Many favorite venues were former porno theaters with great audio production like Comedy Mothership, Variety Playhouse in Atlanta. In American Werewolf in London, great scene in adult movie theater where people watch smut and a werewolf kills everyone. Johnny Carson talked about seeing Deep Throat in his monologue; there's a photo of people in line but no video of him there. Late 70s Broadway/off-Broadway nude production where preacher protested; turned out to be Marcus King's great uncle.
Widely cited celebrities who saw Deep Throat: Martin Scorsese, Brian De Palma, Truman Capote, Jack Nicholson, Johnny Carson, Spiro Agnew, Frank Sinatra, others. Barbara Walters mentioned it in her memoir. Not normal today for people to admit seeing a porn film.
Midnight Cowboy (1969) won Best Picture as X-rated/NC-17 movie, starting a trend. X-rated due to homosexual themes, possible influence on youngsters, rape scene, frank portrayal of homosexuality, hustling (gay sex for money), male prostitution, implied oral sex, nudity.
Today it would be celebrated as a film about sex workers. Weird that a porn movie like Deep Throat had people openly going and talking about it; now people pretend not to watch porn. Internet traffic: myth that 30-40% is porn; originates from content filter company press release. Porn sites 4-12% of websites. Porn-related searches 13% on web, 20% on mobile. Higher on mobile because people hide in toilet. With YouTube, Instagram, TikTok streaming, percentage likely lower now.
Deep Throat tagline: woman had unusual birth defect, doctor has unorthodox solution. Harry Reems first famous male porn star, later real estate salesman. Passed away 2013. Huge porn mustache. Arrested by FBI in Memphis for conspiracy to distribute obscenity across state lines (forum shopping). Charges dropped after Supreme Court Miller v. California; first act prosecuted federally for appearing in a film. Supporters: Shirley MacLaine, Warren Beatty, Richard Dreyfuss, Jack Nicholson, Ben Gazzara, Dick Cavett. Cast in Grease (1978) as coach but replaced by Sid Caesar due to notoriety. Returned to porn in 1982 after 8-year hiatus in Society Affairs for six-figure salary.
Pornography strange: people watch others have sex because they like sex, but can't talk about it. Destigmatize it as entertainment, not give unrealistic bedroom ideas. Fear for women seen as used forever; men seen as studs but skate by. AI porn changes this: no real victims, no one to feel bad for.
VR porn amazing per Duncan, but avoided: goggles on, jacking off, people 20 ft high, move around, get close to watch dick go in. VR games great. Sandbox: warehouse with rooms, haptic vest, goggles, plastic rifles, fight zombies. Deadwood Mansion favorite; three Deadwood zombie games. Locations in Austin (Domain), LA, Atlanta, all over now. Zombies run, claw, blood splatters. Pro tip for Deadwood Mansion: shotgun overpowered. Zombie rats, wall zombies shoot tongues to pull you. Save heroes, kill others. Other games: Squid Game, Stranger Things, Deadwood Valley, Deadwood Phobia (newest). Stuck on train, zombies jump on. Physical: run in large room, fans cool, vest vibrates on grabs. Once in top 3 nationwide score. Family hates it, gets sick; forces on Father's Day. Band activity idea, up to 6 people. Good double date then dinner.
Marcus never played video games growing up (age 30), no interest; bandmates play. Different from regular games: very physical, time-intensive, robs life.
Most people sick of guitar aren't good at video games or play them. Joe got a PS5 and Red Dead Redemption a year or two ago to play but felt like he was doing chores. His drummer agreed it's like that. Joe recommends first-person shooters like Quake. Jamie mentions Fortnite as a big one kids play today. Fortnite has been around forever; Joe's kids played it in grade school. Now Star Wars is in Fortnite—you can download Stormtroopers and lightsabers. Nephews hit Joe up for V-Bucks to play more. Kids into Robux for Roblox to buy things, but pedophiles message people there now. Creeps ruin everything. Avoid addictive hobbies like golf or video games.
Guitar Hero isn't the same as real guitar. Some learn actual guitar from it. Rocksmith is a training aid: plug in a real guitar via USB to computer, play real songs, slow down levels. Interface shows actual guitar neck. No fake guitar—use your own. Guitars vibrate strings to produce sound. After a while, abandon it to play freely.
Sandbox games like Deadwood Mansion. Staccato (pistol maker) has VR gun game with plastic Staccato: pointing, trigger pull causes muzzle jump, reticle jumps like real gun. Available for consumer VR goggles. Improves real shooting despite lighter plastic weight. Ideal version with steel gun weight for full feel transfer. Could do same for guitar with sensors on real guitar.
Marcus learned initially by playing guitar at home watching cartoons. Grandfather gave projects; dad left old records: Allman Brothers Band, Skynyrd, Marshall Tucker Band. Sat home all day practicing them. In high school, studied jazz theory with Steve Watson at Fine Arts Center in Greenville, South Carolina—a vocational school for arts. Afternoons there. Jazz theory gave vocabulary to intuitively known concepts, named things, expanded knowledge. Music theory is valuable.
Helps songwriting. In Nashville, Nashville number system based on major scale: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 (8 is octave of 1). Session charts say "one, four, five" for chords. Math in music leads to rabbit holes, vibrations, ancient Egypt, hieroglyphs translation to theory. First used number system with Herbie Hancock. His house band: remaining Memphis Boys—played on "Son of a Preacher Man" by Dusty Springfield, "Suspicious Minds." Gene Chrisman (80 years old) on drums, Bobby Wood (keys), Billy Sanford (wrote riff for "Pretty Woman," second Nashville session). Walked into session early while they finished John Prine. Dan called Marcus in to play slide guitar, threw chart—pretended to know, relied on ear. Conversational: say little if unsure.
Joe scared of practicing music—would get obsessed, very rewarding. Gratitude propels forward: happy doing one of coolest things for living. Don't be an asshole. Thank you, Marcus. Thanks for having me. Anytime, let's do it again.
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