JRE MMA Show #173 with Benny "The Jet" Urquidez & William "Blinky" Rodriguez
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Joe Rogan began training at the Jet Center in Los Angeles in 1994, one of two essential places alongside the Comedy Store. He trained there before the 1994 Northridge earthquake caused roof damage and closure. He took kickboxing classes with gang members due to Benny Urquidez and William "Blinky" Rodriguez's outreach program helping young gang members. Joe sparred with gang members. After closure, he briefly trained at the reopened North Hollywood location, then moved to Musashi Gym in the Valley. He calls them legends and true pioneers in martial arts.
Benny is humbled Joe remembers his son, which started the outreach.
Blinky's son was killed in a drive-by shooting while learning to drive a stick shift in a valley with two million people. This sparked his calling to fight generational gang violence. Communities normalized it, but Blinky rejected that. He collaborated with churches for peace marches. 36 years later, he runs a nonprofit with lived experience and degreed professionals addressing violence directly. "It's over when we say it's over."
Forgiveness from God led him to the neighborhood that killed his son for a huge park meeting, resulting in a peace treaty: "No mother's crying, no babies dying." Continues with integrated service delivery focused on violence prevention.
Joe praises bringing them to Jet Center for discipline, fighting skills, confidence, martial arts mentality from legends like Benny.
Benny Knocks Out Jean-Yves Thériault
Benny knocked out Jean-Yves Thériault (the man everyone feared) with right leg shodokan sweep turning over with instep, reset, left hook combo. Thériault had an amazing career, all-time great in kickboxing.
Benny pioneered undefeated, fought all sizes, highlights online. Fought Thais with no Muay Thai training, low kicked but won.
Brother Arnold asked if Benny wanted to fight "Tai" (Muay Thai); Benny thought it was a name, agreed without knowing. First at Olympic Auditorium vs Ernest Hart (main event after Hart fought first Thai champion Narong Noi at Lumpinee Stadium).
Leg kicks bulged Benny's eyes; strong legs but first time someone tried breaking them. Ernest kneed face; Benny adapted. No prior knowledge of rules—no elbows, knees.
Promoter: Brother Arnold called Benny world champion after 1973 full contact karate in Hawaii—no rules, no weight divisions. Benny 145 lbs (later said 160), fought multiple times Friday and Sunday.
Four left: Benny fought Bernest White, Blinky fought Dana Goodson (245 lbs, 6'3"). Blinky told to knock out or hurt for Benny's David vs Goliath fight. Benny picked up, threw 245 lb opponent, pinned, bit chest when rolled over (opponent palm struck face). Teeth marks; Benny: "I was getting tired."
No submissions knowledge generally, but Benny/Blinky black belts in judo, boxed since '60s. Elimination tournaments 1973-1975, then heard of Muay Thai.
No video of no-rules fights online; Benny's documentary (film 1969-1996, 2mm, 16mm) includes Blinky vs Black and White fights.
Fight vs Narong Noi Kiatbandit
Video shown: Benny vs Narong Noi Kiatbandit (Muay Thai) after two prior Muay Thai fights. Learned from black/white film. Created first shin guards at leather shop (pad wrapped shins, Velcro sewn on). Gave to others for leg checking.
Thais used numbing spray (lidocaine) on shins; trained kicking banana trees, cow/bull kicking trees in half. Doctor student warned nerve damage from breaking shin tissues.
No Thai trainers in LA then; learned only from film. First Muay Thai gym in LA unknown, focused on fighting them: lateral movement vs linear clinch (nullified hands).
In Japan, took their belt; Japanese brought Americans back repeatedly to reclaim, failed.
Post-Bruce Lee martial arts explosion; Japan forefront kickboxing after karate losses to Muay Thai, adjusted: no elbows/clinch for excitement, led to K-1.
Benny/Blinky patient zero for mixed martial arts.
Chuck Norris raised money in Detroit post-Enter the Dragon; cattle call single elimination knockouts. Five per team: LA Rulers (Southern California), New York Dragons, Detroit Dragons, DC Dynamos, Texas Gladiators.
LA team: Blinky middleweight captain, Benny lightweight, Steve Sanders' Black Karate Federation guys (Ernest "Mad Man" Russell, Danny Ferguson, Sugar Bear).
Team points: KO = 25 points. $1500 winners, $700 losers. Last in Detroit; evolved differently.
PKA and Bill Wallace
PKA (Don Quine, Judy Quinn): waist-up only to protect Bill "Superfoot" Wallace (one good knee, left kicks only).
WKA sanctioned leg kicks/sweeps.
Calf kick now MMA primary weapon; slept on long time (Daniel Cormier, Michael Bisping never faced). Now in kickboxing/Muay Thai, Japanese/Kyokushin dominate Thais: Yuki Yoza constant calf combos crippling Thais; Masaki Noiri beat Tawanchai brutalizing inside/outside calves, then left hook.
Bill Wallace fight first live CBS Sports Spectacular. Prefer KO over robbery. Near rematch. Vs Jean-Yves Thériault (Johnny Tero), calf kick setup from Kempo/Shodokan (front kick, right leg sweeps) for hook.
Don "Dragon" Wilson vs Dennis Alexio (destroyer, above-waist era): Wilson chopped legs, Alexio immobile.
Stan Longinidis (Savage Thunder from Down Under) broke Alexio's femur/lower leg with kick in Hawaii (video shown: buckled on check). Stayed at Jet Center. Shuki Ron (Musashi Gym) needed hip replacement from Longinidis pad kicks.
"Not how hard you hit, how right." PKA required 8 minimum kicks/round; bad kickers boxed sloppily, lost appeal.
If allowed low kicks early, with Japanese/Thai fighters, would rival MMA popularity. One Championship excels: Muay Thai, kickboxing, MMA, grappling. Joe pushes UFC similarly; a lot of times people boo when people go to the
People boo when fights go to the ground. Solution: have standup fights with MMA gloves and Muay Thai rules where no ground fighting is allowed. This would be incredibly exciting, possibly as a whole promotion.
In America, kickboxing suffered due to PKA (Professional Karate Association), called the "kick of the 80s." Great fighters included Bad Brad Heft, Jerry Trimble (met on a set for a commercial, now acting), Rick Roufus (outstanding, changed after being broken down by a Thai fighter, learned leg kicks).
If leg kicks were allowed on TV from the beginning, PKA karate would have been hugely successful. PKA rules (due to Bill Superfoot Wallace) were from the waist up only. Benny Urquidez's brother and Howard Hansen started WKA (World Karate Association), went to Japan allowing everything including elbows and knees because of Muay Thai fighters there. "No rules. Let's go."
K-1 eliminated elbows to reduce cuts stopping fights and increase action, mainly for insurance reasons. Elbows caused brutal cuts like axes across faces, lips, eyebrows. Thais used elbows downward to slice foreheads, causing heavy bleeding to end fights.
Decision benefiting Bill Superfoot Wallace screwed kickboxing in America. Ironically, he was the first UFC commentator. "This is no rules, Bill. Rules are completely out the window."
Kickboxing development stagnated. Glory did well with Last Man Standing in LA (crazy, amazing event on Spike TV), but didn't catch on due to poor promotion or lack of appeal to American public, no sponsorship (views bring sponsors).
UFC dominates; everyone goes to see it in Philly or Houston (tens of thousands). Kickboxing needs proper selling. Product is there with great strikers like Yuki Yoizawa (Jamie, pull up clip): lethal combinations, chops inside/outside legs constantly, hooks calves (works on Thais), high kicks, Kyokushin background (punches to chest only, but learn boxing after). Sport has changed when Japanese destroy Thai legs.
Cool aspect: new fighters rise with different techniques, others catch up, techniques evolve. Martial arts evolved more from 1993-2026 than previous 10,000 years due to exposure. Early pioneers like Benny and Blinky fought no-rules in Hawaii (legendary; assumed strikers won).
UFC changed everything: Brazilian in gi strangling everyone. Everybody seeks next big thing beyond UFC ground-and-pound.
Ground looks boring on monitors; crowds don't see skill. Promoters paid fighters to keep opponents standing, discouraged takedowns (hold down, win). Unfair; if wrestler holds you down, figure out how to escape (submit, sweep, stand). Don't pretend techniques work. Ref standing up due to boos interferes; no free opportunities.
Crowds want action like car crashes, not realizing ground skill. Can't change rules for casuals when business alters sports for seats.
Promoters prioritize popularity for seats over fighting. Early UFC TV job: explain ground game (trained at Carlson Gracie, John Wayne Machado). Explain like to girlfriend: "He's gonna throw his right leg over... HE'S GOT THE TRIANGLE!"
Early: explain why legs around neck (blood choke, like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon from Rorion Gracie). Now everyone knows choke, armbar; just explain danger.
Crowds still chant "get up." Nothing like knockout, especially headkick knockout (Leon Edwards vs Kamaru Usman, 5th round, Salt Lake City exploded). Ultimate martial arts expression, Bruce Lee movie in real life against skilled opponent.
More understanding of skill increases appreciation. Bushido spirit brought mystique, tradition, honor to martial arts.
Ref not stopping after knockout leads to extra shots causing damage. Vicious; need conditioning. Exhaustion makes cowards.
Bushido atmosphere dissipating into new era. Injuries from ground-and-pound or KO falls; insurance brutal for shows. Many fighters don't last 2-3 years, hard to make living especially married.
Mental, physical, spiritual warfare. Educate public: entertainment with skill to stop opponent without getting hit.
Test of spirit: discipline to condition/train, fight at ability level under pressure. Martial arts competition: high-level problem solving with dire physical consequences.
Two fighter types: checker player (takes 2 to give 1), chess player (avoids hits, gives 4-5-6 in combinations).
Jet Center legendary for champions, proper technique, consequences, not killing in sparring. Best sparring there post-fighting career.
Boston gyms: war, full blasts, KOs, back days later (didn't understand concussions). Shake off headache/dizziness, fear not hanging.
Fighters enter bouts concussed from camp (one guy KO'd twice, <2 weeks before fight, out cold from chin touch; compromised like hole in armor).
Hard sparring needed to feel real shots, but technique sparring key. Thais succeed via play sparring; fight weekly so no hard training bangs. 22yo with 200-300 fights (lifestyle, family food).
Fight from 5yo, train 3yo; by 10 massive experience. Many done by 22-24. Gambling motivates: first round light (bets set, switch opponents/rounds). Fighters feel out first round (leg kicks, teep), ramp up second.
Parents sell kids young to gyms (take gym name, live/train upstairs only). Gambling made sport huge, fierce (knees, elbows, clinch, leg kicks long before world caught up).
1975: barely knew Muay Thai term. Leg checks/counters evolved counters. Other styles for American bred
Other styles for American fighters lacked certain techniques in their arsenal. PKA didn't allow PK fighters to learn internationally. Coming up through Shotokan teaches sweeps and front kicks on the traditional side.
Dana White said people don't care about kickboxing because it was sold badly in the 80s. If kickboxing had the same promotional push as UFC in 2001, it would be as big as boxing or MMA today. There are excellent standup fighters who are colorful and use elbows, knees, feet, jumping techniques that others fear.
They didn't want me to throw spinning back kicks. It doesn't work.
Benny made them eat their words; if done right, it looks fancy and works. Everything doesn't work if you're not good at it, like punching Floyd Mayweather.
Terrence Crawford learned to switch hit because his coach told him not to, to stay orthodox. He proved he could fight southpaw and switch hands. It's amazing only if you develop southpaw as good as orthodox. Same with spinning back kick: Benny Urquidez can land it.
Benny is a lefty but fought left forward per his brother's advice. Trained all siblings left forward, but strikes hid southpaw nature, giving lethal left-side kicks (front, side, round) as a natural lefty.
Each decade changes: Budo way had honor system in earlier times. 70s full contact changed it; 75+ kickboxing ("we're kickboxers, not martial artists"); then Muay Thai ("we're Muay Thai, not kickboxers"); then UFC ("we're UFC fighters, not Muay Thai"). Need to learn from ground one: eternal "I am" concept and warrior code of honor between warriors, which got lost despite its power.
How do you know? I just know.
Tenets of warrior code in traditional martial arts: bowing at class start, unified kiai, rigid structure, no trash talk, yelling, or swearing. Don't wipe sweat; bow before fight, no trash talk—words spoken with weapons.
Benny's sister Lily Urquidez (Blinky's cousin, Benny's wife who passed) was a trailblazer in women's boxing and kickboxing, won titles in both. Fought Madison Square Garden 1978, Olympic Auditorium, Forum, Japan, traveled world. Fought first on cards with Benny and Blinky introducing kickboxing worldwide.
Fought on Bobby Chacon vs Alexis Arguello card: first husband-wife to fight on a boxing card. Grew up with Bobby (San Fernando Valley featherweight); Benny sparred with him until reflexive leg check after right hand upset Bobby.
Trailblazers with little money: paid own way (gas) to fight. No money, glory, big houses/cars like today—just heart and love of sport to build it. Joe emphasizes recognizing pioneers like Benny and Blinky who blazed martial arts trail in US when no one knew what was going on.
First kickboxing in '73 as Full Contact Karate; sparring bare knuckles hitting ground since '64. Bruce Lee movies came ~10 years later. Judo known, some karate, but boxing most popular pre-arts.
Started judo 1960, Kenpo karate 1963; met Gene LeBell there. "Master of disaster." Silvio Pimentel (Gene's student) taught Joe private jiu-jitsu lessons with Gene's nasty tricks, chokes, variations.
Gene's initiation: choke out trainees, apply lipstick around eyes. Benny got choked out quickly, then Gene grabbed big toe for pain submission from head to toe.
In 70s, Gene hip-threw and choked out two car burglars. Did movies with Gene; his mother Eileen Eaton owned Olympic Auditorium (big fights spot). Gene humble, self-deprecating, gorilla grip.
Gene's first mixed rules fight vs Milo Savage (boxer) predated Hawaii karate/MMA fights; wore gi to tangle Milo and strangle him.
Benny semi-main under Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki (1976, Nippon Budokan, Tokyo; "War of the Worlds" event, 15 rounds no decision, TV/pay-per-view). Knocked out opponent quick to watch. Warned Ali: Inoki would go for legs. Inoki did flying round kicks to thighs; Ali jumped ropes kicking Inoki on ground. Ali's legs destroyed (sidekicks hyperextended knee), carried out, drained fluid, infected hospital stay. Compromised Ali's float-like-a-butterfly legs.
Ali WBC/WBA heavyweight champ then. Inoki (half-Japanese, tall, square jaw, big thighs) top in Japan pro wrestling.
Benny trained week with Inoki: vice grip strength, natural movement, steel clubs (smaller for Benny), new muscles daily. Many learned from Carl Gotch (legendary catch wrestler who taught Japanese pro wrestlers like Sakuraba submissions, conditioning). Brutal routine required peak conditioning first (gas tank, strength, agility).
Benny's mother wrestled Olympic Auditorium with Gene LeBell; Benny fought there; sister Lily did roller derby there (tough sport).
Lily had 50+ street fights (article on Bobby Chacon card); first women to push boxing when denied (knocked out men in gyms). First woman with boxing, martial arts, kickboxing titles.
Lucia Rijker (90s Dutch kickboxing champ to boxing, knocked out opponents, no fights vs Christy Martin). Laila Ali, Claressa Shields (greatest ever) owe to Lily. Modern fighters owe pioneers like Benny/Blinky.
Benny inducted Saturday at Martial Arts Museum. First three-finger glove 1973 for striking/grabbing (like Bruce Lee's Game of Death gloves).
MMA eye pokes solvable 80% by covering fingertips (mitten like Everlast bag glove): no need for fingers in grappling (no interlacing), padding over knuckles extended, thumbs free, doesn't detract from sport. Fighters strike open-handed sometimes; e.g., finger jabbed deep.
Recent: Tom Aspinall vs Ciryl Gane—Gane poked both eyes, Aspinall's right damaged (one surgery, second soon). Countless detached retinas inevitable from strikes to eyes.
Discussion on reducing eye injuries in MMA by covering fingertips. Sugar Ray Leonard suffered a detached retina from boxing gloves alone. MMA gloves cause pokes, but alternatives exist beyond current designs. Need to protect fighters and improve the sport—fewer stops from eye pokes means more exciting fights.
Fighters used 8 oz gloves with horsehair, often wetting it in spit buckets to harden. Some cut holes to squirt water into horsehair. Antonio Margarito caught using plaster of Paris in wraps that hardened like rock when wet, equivalent to hitting with a brick. Refs checked and marked wraps. Cheaters persist in sports.
Bushido Code of Honor vs. Commercialization
Sports require Bushido honor system, respect. When it becomes about money, it deviates from warriors' code—like samurais. Now rules must be followed. Martial arts code of honor would make fights exciting, develop better humans imitating respect over trash-talk.
Martial arts was a vehicle for developing your human potential.
Apply martial arts lessons to anything; it's a way of life teaching honor, dignity, respect, self-defense, self-improvement.
Defensive fighters beat strikers. Humiliating for strikers unable to land on impeccable defense, leading to confusion and counters. Gym atmosphere and training partners critical—imitate top gym level. Train with champions to aspire high; leave if you're the best non-champion in your gym.
Jet Center drew worldwide talent; aspirational environment with conditioning focus. Occasional wars, but emphasis on learning. Boston kickboxers spoke of it in hushed tones.
Joe's Sparring Experience
Joe leaned over, ripped body shot in sparring, opponent went to one knee thinking he'd get shot in parking lot. Opponent tapped glove: "Good shot." Nervous but valuable lesson. Jet Center taught non-violence, character.
Over 200 sporting events with rivals: tackle football, handball, softball. Divisions like us vs. them are bullshit; better as friends. Martial arts teaches internal battle over macho posturing.
The real battle is inside yourself.
Develop silent confidence through growth, not bravado.
Story of Alex Garcia
6'3", 230 lb Mexican-American did 5 years manslaughter, trained boxing at Jet Center. Won Diamond Belt, Golden Gloves, state title, World Box-Offs, World Games silver medal (first Hispanic in weight class). Fought Teofilo Stevenson (6'7", 3x Olympic gold, Cuba) on ABC. Stevenson was hyped as potential Ali rival but locked in Cuban amateur system by Fidel Castro; talked for Time magazine cover but never defected pro.
Union jobs, tattoo removal (gang tattoos, past markers), courtroom advocacy, CVI (Community Violence Intervention) programs nationwide. New non-laser tattoo tech. Martial arts dojo provides path: rules, daily return, progress via belts signaling rites of passage, higher standards.
Reprogramming Emotions at Jet Center
Sparring surfaces hidden anger, fear; reprogram under threat. Mirror truth, heal to continue journey. Develop real confidence. All walks: fighting attorneys humble in gym, rivals outside—reveals character.
Hardest training > life's pains (except losing loved one). Martial artists nicest people—nothing to prove. George St-Pierre: 2-division UFC champ, super nice.
Martial artists are some of the nicest [__] people you'll ever meet.
Forgiving Son's Killer
Jan 2023: Friend in prison says inmate (David) wants to talk—murdered Blinky's son. After fasting/prayer, agreed to in-person chapel meeting. David asked for hug; both wept in Holy Ghost moment. Spent 2+ hours; led David to Lord—hand on shoulder/heart, contrite tears.
The power of forgiveness is more powerful than my left hook.
Forgiveness divine, requires love/humility; reconciles, removes yoke. Trust in Christ. Recognizes all humans capable of terrible acts in wrong environments.
Farewell to brother Ben (50/50 owners). 36 years later, still active. Joe first visited 32 years ago, took classes. Blinky now traveling, working on documentary.
Benny Urquidez continues traveling and teaching seminars extensively. He considers himself a better teacher than fighter, despite being one of the greatest fighters of all time. He loves teaching because it allows him to help people discover their truth, talent, and gift. He takes pride in transforming those who doubt or hesitate themselves into strong individuals who love themselves and contribute greatly to society.
Training Professional MMA Fighters
- Trains professional MMA fighters privately but does not name them or publicize it.
- Focuses on mental (80%), physical (20%), and especially spiritual/internal (99.9%) aspects.
- Works with fighters anonymously, prioritizing how he can help them based on their needs.
- Attended one MMA fight early on when there were great technicians, but feels it got lost; occasionally sees standouts with beautiful technique who love it.
Evolution of MMA Technique and History
Joe Rogan notes young fighters in their 20s are the most technical ever, influenced by UFC's rise in 2005 via Ultimate Fighter. They grew up watching elites like Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, Fedor Emelianenko, Conor McGregor. MMA on TV started in 1993; by 2026, it's unrecognizable—fighters can submit, takedown, kickbox without weak spots.
The only thing you can't coach is heart.
- Heart can be grown through pain and shame of lacking it, like technique or conditioning.
- Conditioning builds it; the journey reveals good, bad, ugly, mirroring one's truth.
Pioneers Reflecting on Martial Arts Evolution
As pioneers, they built a Bushido way of life with honor, respect, dignity. Benny's last fight was in 1994/95; changes came with Gracies (1990-95), MMA boom to 2000, then cage fighting everywhere.
- Disliked ground-and-pound, reminiscent of young street fights; avoided injuring opponents' livelihoods (e.g., if married or with kids).
- Viewed it as sport: pinned but let opponents stand ("Get back up").
Differences Between Street Fighting, Sport, and Early Tournaments
- Street vs. sport on mats: concrete/wood in international tournaments 1964-65 (sweeps, takedowns, reverse punches, then let up under code of honor).
- Understands ground game rules for victory but turned off by jumping on opponents.
Privileged to Be Pioneers
Blinky feels privileged in the robust, exciting era: Hawaii trip (knockout rules or lose), saw Dana Goodson caddying at airport. Conditioning was king—tip-top shape allowed reading opponents.
It wasn't always about recognition. It was about the art, life, how you treat people.
- Grateful for focus on people, service, opening doors, touching lives.
- Multi-pronged approach: basic needs, opportunities overlooked by others.
Compliments on Humility and Martial Arts' Lessons
Blinky praises Joe's humility as honest and anointed. Martial arts teaches true self, spirit, capabilities beyond image.
Martial arts teaches you who you really are... what you are really capable of.
- Journey involves loss, good/bad/ugly to discover self.
Pure Motivations of Early Martial Arts
No money or fame; pure pursuit to find the baddest man on earth through competition. Notoriety limited to martial artists, Black Belt magazine, movie viewers—not general public.
History and Plans for Jet Center Gym
- Benny sketched original Jet Center on toilet paper in Japan, showed Blinky who had dreamed it identically: Kilo Plaza in Shinjuku vision with jacuzzi, steam room, sauna, cold plunge.
- Built at bowling alley, 14540 Friar Street: $4,000 down, 2.5-day escrow, construction started a month later.
- Joe recalls nervous awe entering due to legendary history; saddened by roof damage ending era.
New Gym Vision: Safe Haven for Self-Discovery
- Benny doodling new gym on actual paper: safe haven for self-defense, mirroring truth, releasing anger/fear/frustration.
- Unique worldwide destination; location key (California possible, born/raised there).
- Designed 9 pieces of equipment, 5 unseen machines for mental, physical, spiritual endurance to next level.
- Taking one day at a time; already started, sees where it goes.
Combined Gym and Outreach Services
- Discussed buying huge building for gym + services like tattoo removal (Blinky's outreach), programming to uplift lives.
- About humanity, people needing a place to mirror truth, purpose, existence.
- Joe hopes it happens; people would come worldwide to train/learn.
Gentlemen thank Joe; honor to be there. Joe still bobbing and weaving.
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