How to Legalize Medical Psychedelics in Your Country — Tania de Jong on Australia’s Breakthrough
In a Nutshell
Tania de Jong and her husband drove Australia to become the first country to reschedule psilocybin and MDMA from prohibited substances to controlled medicines in 2023 through Mind Medicine Australia, a charity they founded in 2019. Their campaign succeeded by submitting repeated evidence-based applications to the TGA, training over 750 clinicians, building 30+ local chapters, and leveraging high-profile presentations like David Nutt's to regulators and public testimony from patients like Vanessa whose husband died by suicide after treatment-resistant depression. The result is over 400 patients treated at 20+ clinics with 60-80% remission rates, establishing a model now influencing global policy while de Jong urges continued advocacy for expanded access.
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Tania de Jong recounts the pivotal moment when her husband informed her that psilocybin and MDMA had been rescheduled in Australia. Initially disbelieving, she examined the document herself, convinced there must be an error. Upon confirming the rescheduling, they celebrated with dancing in their kitchen, describing the moment as unbelievable and amazing. Headlines emerged worldwide declaring Australia as the first country to achieve this milestone, positioning the nation as a global leader in the field.
The conversation traces back to 2015 when de Jong first encountered Tim Ferriss's blog post announcing a $100,000 donation to Imperial College for psilocybin depression research. Initially, she had been reading his books and following his biohacking experiments. The blog post referenced the New Yorker article "The Trip Treatment" by Michael Pollan, which explored psilocybin research at Johns Hopkins with Roland Griffiths. De Jong, who had never consumed alcohol, coffee, or any drugs, was profoundly impacted by the article and convinced her skeptical husband to pursue participation in a clinical trial.
After being denied entry to European clinical trials due to lack of mental illness diagnosis, de Jong and her husband were connected to a guide in the Netherlands through the Psychedelic Society. They flew to Europe for their first psilocybin experience. De Jong describes being petrified beforehand, writing her last wishes to her accountant 24-48 hours before the session due to fears of losing control or going crazy. The guide, dressed in white robes reminiscent of Ram Dass, provided no clear answers to her husband's practical questions about the experience.
The couple underwent what de Jong describes as an extraordinary experience involving multiple realms of consciousness, connection to self, others, and the planet. She reports never seeing nature the same way afterward—every seashell, cloud, leaf, and blade of grass was transformed, revealing the energy in everything. The experience brought the couple closer together and took approximately one year to integrate, described as letting the "snow globe settle" after an intense fireworks display of material relating to ancestors and ancestral lineages.
Despite initially declaring she would never repeat the experience, de Jong returned to Europe for a second session with the same Dutch guide at an even higher dose. The experience was even more profound, leading the couple to recognize the healing potential. They identified a "golden thread" connecting people back to themselves and to others. Having already founded five charities between them, they began considering how these medicines might address the mental illness and trauma underlying issues like homelessness, domestic violence, unemployment, and disabilities.
De Jong and her husband began systematically meeting researchers worldwide, attending conferences, and consuming all available educational content. In 2018, they met Rick Doblin, founder of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), who had been working on MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD since the 1970s-80s. Doblin encouraged de Jong to establish a charity in Australia focused on this work. She describes him as unorthodox, well-educated in policy, and a primary driver of the psychedelic movement.
Australia had minimal psychedelic research at the time, with only one planned trial for end-of-life stress and anxiety. De Jong founded Mind Medicine Australia (MMA) in February 2019 with the goal of providing safe, accessible, and cost-effective access to these medicines for Australians. The organization approached the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA)—Australia's equivalent to the FDA—in late 2020 to request rescheduling of psilocybin and MDMA from Schedule 9 (prohibited substances) to Schedule 8 (controlled medicines) for clinical use.
De Jong's husband, described as having an extraordinary intellect and strategic mind, led the application process. Initial applications were rejected at both interim and final stages, but the TGA was required to provide reasons for rejection. The couple addressed these concerns in subsequent applications. The campaign included extensive public education through webinars, presentations to politicians, health professionals, and business leaders—estimated at thousands of presentations. Over 13,000 Australians submitted public comments supporting rescheduling, with 98% in favor, representing the largest number of public submissions ever received by Australian regulators for medicine rescheduling.
The campaign evolved from a husband-and-wife effort into a massive national movement. Mind Medicine Australia established over 30 chapters across Australia, including Byron Bay, Brisbane, Darwin, Perth, and even New Zealand locations. The organization provided templates, precedents, and guidance to enable local chapters to conduct their own campaigns. Additionally, MMA launched a world-leading Certificate in Psychedelic Assisted Therapy in 2021, training over 750 clinicians including psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors, nurses, therapists, social workers, and counselors.
A key strategy involved recruiting influential allies. De Jong assembled an advisory panel of approximately 75 leaders in the field, including scientists, doctors, and researchers. In 2022, Imperial College neuroscientist David Nutt was flown to Australia for a roadshow sponsored by herbal tincture and organic chocolate brands. Nutt addressed packed town halls in Byron Bay, Sydney, and Melbourne, and participated in black-tie events with philanthropists and stakeholders at Australian clubs in Sydney and Melbourne.
De Jong emphasizes that persistence was fundamental to success. Every roadblock was met with determination to find alternative paths forward. The couple's track record of founding five previous charities that achieved significant outcomes helped establish credibility. She notes that many advisory panel members joined because they believed the Australian effort could succeed despite initial skepticism.
De Jong first connected with many key figures at the 2018 EONIA conference in Madison, Wisconsin, where she both spoke and performed musically. She describes serenading Roland Griffiths. Her connection with Ram Dass began in 2016 after her first psychedelic experience, when the Dutch guide played Ram Dass recordings. The couple subsequently spent a week living at Ram Dass's property in Maui, Hawaii, participating in meditations, ceremonies, and beach outings with him.
Tania de Jong spent time with Ram Dass in the year before he passed away following his stroke. During visits, she sat in silence with him and sang the song "Coming Home" to him, which brought tears to his face. Ram Dass's eyes would light up whenever psychedelics were mentioned, and he would begin recounting his story about giving his guru in India a massive dose of LSD.
Ram Dass, whose birth name was Richard Alpert, was at Harvard with Timothy Leary. They were both kicked out of Harvard, partly due to an article written by an undergraduate named Andrew Weil in the Harvard Crimson about their psilocybin dosing. There was discussion, though not fully verified, about them giving it to undergraduates, which became a scandal. At one point, President Nixon designated Timothy Leary as the most dangerous man in America.
Richard Alpert went to India and found his way to Maharaji, the guru featured in "Be Here Now." When trying to explain psychedelics to Maharaji, the guru asked if he had any. Ram Dass gave him 400 to 600 micrograms of LSD, which the guru had never taken before. An hour later, the guru simply looked at him with a smile and said "Interesting," conveying that psychedelics allow you to peek at Christ consciousness but not experience its depth. To put this in perspective, 100 micrograms is considered a standard dose, and 200 micrograms would incapacitate most people for 8 to 12 hours.
Ram Dass went on to become a prolific writer and speaker whose recordings remain compelling to listen to.
The Ram Dass connection proved helpful in getting to Madison, where Bill Linton and colleagues welcomed Tania and her team with open arms. They sang, spoke, and met various people in the psychedelic community, including Robin and Roland. This was the year before Mind Medicine Australia was launched.
Tania wrote to David Nutt inviting him to speak at the launch of Mind Medicine Australia on February 13th at the University of Melbourne. David accepted, and they flew him to Australia for the event, which was packed. David and his wife became close friends with the organization, and he has been brought back multiple times since.
In 2022, Mind Medicine Australia invited David Nutt to present at town hall events and brought him to the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA). When asked how many people would attend a meeting featuring David Nutt, the head of the TGA estimated 10 to 15 people. In reality, 140 people attended, including Department of Health employees and executives from various parts of the TGA and Department of Health.
Vanessa, a woman whose husband Franco had died by suicide after severe depression, was invited to speak before David Nutt. Franco had no previous history of depression, was a very successful man with a young daughter, and developed severe depression suddenly. He was treated with SSRIs that didn't work, institutionalized, and saw every professor and expert available. Vanessa kept a 20-page dossier of every treatment tried.
When Vanessa asked Tania about psychedelic assisted therapies for Franco, Tania explained they were not yet available in Australia and he would need to go overseas to places like the Netherlands where psilocybin truffles are legal. Franco was not well enough to travel, and they didn't want to break Australian law by seeking underground treatment. Despite trying all conventional treatments, Franco ultimately died by suicide. Vanessa spoke at the TGA meeting, stating she believed her husband might still be alive if he had access to these treatments, and their young daughter would still have a father.
David Nutt presented the science, research data, and evidence from numerous trials. Despite skepticism from scientists, clinicians, and others who said rescheduling would not happen, on February 3rd, 2023, the medicines were rescheduled in Australia. Headlines around the world declared Australia the first country to do this. A few months later, rules changed allowing psychiatrists to begin treating patients in clinics.
The purpose was to establish clinics across Australia with clinicians trained since 2021. Psychiatrists must apply to the TGA for authorized prescriber status, submitting protocols detailing medicine quantities, practice locations, and other requirements. Applications are reviewed by the TGA and an independent ethics committee. Once approved, psychiatrists can provide psilocybin-assisted therapy and MDMA-assisted therapy.
There are now over 20 clinics around Australia, mostly led by clinicians trained through Mind Medicine Australia's certificate in psychedelic assisted therapies. Over 400 patients have been treated, with 60 to 80% remission rates and no serious adverse events reported.
A key argument to the TGA was that not rescheduling these medicines carried its own risk. Patients like Franco who had exhausted all other treatments might end up taking their own lives. During the application period, many people wrote, texted, and emailed begging for access to the medicines, including politicians writing on behalf of constituents. The organization could not provide medicines as they are not a medicine provider.
The medicines are administered in controlled clinical settings in Australia, not in nature, despite personal preferences. Patients must have proper preparation and mindset to be open to insights from the altered state, then integrate those insights into their life, work, and health through therapy. Treatment follows a 3 to 4 month protocol.
Of the approximately 400 patients treated, there is roughly a 70-30 split with more receiving MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for trauma than psilocybin for depression. Many psychiatrists started with MDMA as it felt more manageable. Some patients have received both medicines sequentially, not simultaneously. Psilocybin use is increasing and is being researched for additional conditions including addictions, obsessive-compulsive disorder, eating disorders, cluster headaches, and fibromyalgia.
MDMA is considered underestimated as a therapeutic tool. First patented in the 1920s, it was shelved, then the patent expired. Sasha Shulgin later resurrected MDMA in his lab through tasting parties, replacing MDA as an underground therapist's tool. MDMA offers a manageable risk profile compared to other psychedelics and does not typically produce the dramatic, technicolor experiences that make for viral stories, which may contribute to it being underestimated.
Therapy is not standardized in Australia. Clinicians trained through Mind Medicine Australia's certificate program use various modalities including Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy and other approaches. Nutrition and exercise are increasingly recognized as important components of integration therapy. The organization does not advocate a cookie-cutter approach, instead encouraging therapists to bring their individual skills and determine what works for each patient. All patients are individuals, and doses are not identical for each person.
Mind Medicine Australia has seen exponential growth in authorized prescribing psychiatrists, from 1 or 2 at the start of 2024 to 120 by mid-to-late 2026. Therapists trained grew from 80 in the first year to 750 currently. Patient numbers grew from 15-20 in the first year to nearly 400. A conservative estimate projects 5,000 patients could be served over the next 3 years.
Clinical trials in the United States are extremely expensive due to Schedule I status, with costs reaching approximately $15,000 per patient compared to $50 for street-accessible mushroom products. Studies often have small sample sizes of 8 to 15 participants due to recruitment and approval difficulties. Mind Medicine Australia funded a registry at the Australian National University in collaboration with Professor Paul Fitzgerald to collect real-world evidence. The registry collects baseline data, treatment data, and outcomes. Data has not yet been published but is expected within months. The 60-80% remission rates compare favorably to 10-15% for existing PTSD and depression treatments.
Mind Medicine Australia engaged payers early. The Department of Veterans Affairs was approached due to high veteran suicide rates and recognition that veterans and first responders experience significant trauma. The National Disability Insurance Scheme came on board to reduce long-term treatment costs. Rick Doblin and MAPS economic modeling showed potential cost savings of over $100,000 US per patient over a lifetime. MediBank, Australia's largest health insurer, now covers most treatment costs for eligible gold members, requiring only a couple thousand dollars out-of-pocket.
Peter and Tania have worked pro bono for eight years, donating significant funds to establish a patient support fund and advance the cause of alleviating suffering and helping people reclaim their lives.
The facilitator used Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) containing beta-carbolines like harmine and harmaline. This combination with psilocybin creates a protocol called "psilowca" - essentially psilocybin combined with an ayahuasca twist. The Syrian rue serves as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) that first relaxes participants before amplifying the entire experience. The goal was to expand visuals and overall experience between two to ten times compared to psilocybin alone.
Neither Tania nor her husband Peter had any prior drug experience. As type A personalities and control freaks, the experience was specifically chosen to practice letting go of control. The Syrian rue helped them release their bodies and travel, though the guide noted they had "trouble stepping out of their bodies" as their bodies fought the experience.
The dose was approximately 2.5-3 grams of dried psilocybin mushrooms. Lemon juice was used but not marinated for long periods. Onset occurred within about 30 minutes, with tingling sensations in feet and hands. The protocol required participants to remain silent and not communicate with each other during the experience.
When mushrooms are ground and marinated in lemon juice, the lemon pre-metabolizes the psilocybin by converting it into psilocin before ingestion. This significantly reduces onset time from the typical 45-60 minutes down to 10-15 minutes. The reduced dose requirement when combined with Syrian rue also decreases the likelihood of next-day headaches that can occur with higher-dose psilocybin.
Subsequent experiences without Syrian rue were less powerful for Tania, though still meaningful. The enhanced visuals and intensity with Syrian rue made it preferable, though some people find it nauseating. The "doors of perception" phenomenon was noted - once opened, they cannot be shut again, enabling easier access to transcendental states through meditation and singing.
Psilocybin can actually treat cluster headaches and migraines when microdosed, though higher doses in naive users can cause headaches. The likelihood increases when people take flood doses (3g, then 6g, then 9-12g) because they don't know what to expect and keep requesting more. Mothers and primary caretakers sometimes need higher doses due to being accustomed to caring for others.
Group experiences offer unique benefits - participants realize how different everyone's material experiences are while receiving similar insights and messages. Group integration provides cost-effectiveness by splitting therapist/facilitator costs across multiple people, and outcomes appear better according to data from leading ibogaine clinics. Sacred circles and shared experiences create something that "can't be bottled."
A study funded at UCSF examined long-term demoralization in AIDS survivors and was notable for being the first to incorporate group integration in the study design. The cost-effectiveness argument was compelling - splitting facilitator costs across four to six participants - and outcomes proved superior beyond just the financial benefits.
When establishing Mind Medicine Australia, significant resistance came from researchers wanting to continue studying for another 5-10 years despite patients dying by suicide. Some researchers conducted statistically insignificant trials (such as MDMA with only four patients over five years) while attacking the organization. Being non-clinicians created additional pushback from the medical community who felt outsiders shouldn't influence regulations.
Attracting employees with lived experience of mental illness led to undisclosed conditions affecting workplace performance, including staff arriving drunk. The high-stress environment of changing drug laws requires resilient team members, and some people seeking to heal their own conditions weren't positioned to handle the intensity and volatility of the work.
Pioneers driving change face personal attacks that can be deeply hurtful. Tania experienced moments of lying on the carpet crying despite previously considering herself tough. The work required drawing on ancestral resilience, particularly from her maternal grandmother who fled the Holocaust.
Phase 2 MAPS data showed average diagnosis length of severe complex PTSD was 16-17 years before treatment, with 68% achieving complete remission after just 2-3 sessions. Remission rates increased over time rather than declining, reaching 68% at six months compared to 54% immediately after the last session. This durability contrasts sharply with antidepressants, which typically plateau and require dose increases or medication changes.
Psychedelics open a critical period for changing long-standing beliefs and behaviors, creating neuroplasticity that allows reshaping of patterns. However, this requires active integration work - exercise, nutrition, connecting with supportive people, avoiding old patterns, and building community connections. Without behavioral change systems, the experience isn't guaranteed to produce positive outcomes.
Having direct access to the head of Australia's Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) proved crucial for navigating roadblocks. Publishing all submissions publicly and maintaining transparency helped the process. The organization successfully arranged David Nutt to present to TGA employees, with 140 people attending instead of the expected 10-15, and Vanessa's presentation leaving "not a dry eye in the room."
Mind Medicine Australia has a new submission to extend psilocybin access for end-of-life stress and anxiety, arguing that if voluntary assisted dying is legal in Australia, people should also access psilocybin for finding peace. All submissions are publicly available on both the TGA website and Mind Medicine Australia's website.
Tania de Jong emphasized that seeing actual patients and outcomes was the most powerful catalyst for change in Australia's psychedelic medicine policy. The tragic case of Franco became a pivotal example showing the consequences of denying access to these treatments, with many people taking their own lives due to loss of hope. The focus remains on giving people hope and restoring their lives through access to these therapies.
The Australian system remains open-ended rather than subject to a fixed review period. Mind Medicine Australia maintains ongoing dialogue with the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), writing periodically to address bureaucratic roadblocks. A key example was the rule that only clinical psychologists could serve as lead therapists in dosing sessions. After presenting evidence and research, this restriction was widened to include other psychologists and practitioners.
The approach focuses on careful treatment protocols because most patients seeking these therapies in clinical environments are severely ill and require proper screening, highly trained clinicians, and robust integration processes. The goal is to eliminate overly onerous constraints while maintaining safety standards. Clinics are currently videoing all sessions, which may support future arguments for single-clinician protocols with video monitoring.
Group therapy approaches are being explored, with some authorized prescribers already incorporating group integration protocols. The organization is supportive of these developments as they may improve accessibility and cost-effectiveness while maintaining therapeutic benefits.
Current costs at the Mind Medicine Australia Clinic in Abbotsford, Melbourne range from approximately $8,000 AUD ($5,000 USD) for a single treatment including screening, to $15,000 AUD for three doses with integration. A complete 3-4 month course including integration following medicine treatments can cost up to $25,000 AUD. The medicine itself represents only a tiny percentage of total costs, with the majority attributed to therapeutic time involving two therapists.
Mind Medicine Australia operates a clinic in partnership with Inconex, a publicly traded company, using it as a test case for developing best practice protocols and training infrastructure. The clinic serves as a resource for clinicians who have completed training courses to gain supervision and experience, functioning as a "clinic in a box" model for the other 20 clinics operating across Australia.
Methylone is discussed as a shorter-acting alternative to MDMA, lasting 45-60 minutes compared to MDMA's 4-6 hour duration. This could substantially reduce treatment costs. Cana Lift, a natural African substance similar to MDMA but lasting 90 minutes to 2 hours, was mentioned as another potential option. The discussion highlighted how shorter treatment durations could enable group therapy models with multiple patients and fewer therapists.
Ketamine is noted as having significant addiction potential and is not commonly used in Australia for mental health treatment. While it has a place in acute suicidality cases, particularly IV or intramuscular administration, there are concerns about chronic use patterns. The drug is on the WHO's essential medicines list as an anesthetic and shows remarkable efficacy for certain types of chronic pain with durable benefits from few rounds of treatment.
The discussion covered the tension between natural and synthetic compounds, noting that pharmaceutical companies prefer isolated compounds for patentability and regulatory clarity. Kratom's mitragynine was cited as an example where chronic use can lead to dependence requiring rehabilitation. The lack of financial incentives for researching natural compounds was identified as a barrier to understanding their full therapeutic potential.
A personal account described undergoing ketamine infusions following the Yale protocol despite having no anxiety or depression, resulting in increased anxiety during the treatment period. However, a pre-existing chronic back injury from 15 years prior completely resolved after the ketamine series, demonstrating the drug's efficacy for certain chronic pain conditions despite the challenging subjective experience.
Upcoming regulatory changes include potential registration of psilocybin through Compass Pathways and MAPS (now called Resilience), with possible approvals by mid-next year. Australia's role as a preferred location for clinical trials alongside China was highlighted, noting that many global companies conduct trials in these jurisdictions.
The advocacy approach involved persistent engagement with regulators, including sending numerous emails and directly contacting chief health officers. While some TGA staff found the approach aggressive, the persistence was deemed necessary given the stakes involved. The campaign was grounded entirely in data and science rather than political favors, emphasizing the moral imperative to advocate for safe and effective treatments being withheld from the public.
The medicine itself taught lessons about acceptance and strategic focus, leading to a more measured approach of pursuing lower-hanging fruit rather than repeatedly knocking on closed doors. The personal background of being raised by a grandmother who invented the first foldable umbrella in the 1920s was cited as an example of pushing boundaries ahead of one's time.
Tania emphasized that timing matters when pursuing important goals. If you believe something needs to be done, you must go for it without letting anything stop you. She referenced her TED talk story about how singing together changes the brain and how she was told at age 14 never to bother having singing lessons by her best friend. The key lesson learned was never to let anyone snatch your dreams away.
Tania's first ask is donations to the patient support fund. Mind Medicine Australia is a registered charity with deductible gift recipient status in Australia. They accept donations from overseas donors as well. The current fundraising goal is $2.5 million to enable more patients to access treatments who otherwise couldn't afford the upfront costs. This includes helping support veterans, first responders, single moms, and people who demonstrably cannot afford the upfront costs of these treatments.
The second ask is for clinicians or therapists interested in working in this field. Mind Medicine Australia offers a certificate in psychedelic assisted therapy taught by an extraordinary global faculty including Bessel van der Kolk, Gabor Maté, Bill Richards, David Nutt, Rick Doblin, Jim Woolson, and Wayne Davis. The next intakes are February and July of 2027. Current intakes are full as they book out, but they welcome people from all over the world including Switzerland, Europe, the US, Canada, the United Arab Emirates, and Asia.
Tania noted huge markets potentially opening up in Asia and the UAE, with clinicians coming into training from those regions. The website contains an amazing learn section with everything you could ever want to learn about psychedelic assisted therapies.
Mind Medicine Australia has an extraordinary free webinar series. The next one focuses on eating disorders, featuring Dr. Peter Levine. They previously had Dr. Gabor Maté, and later in the year have Bessel van der Kolk and Dick Schwartz scheduled.
Tania emphasized building a massive movement globally saying people need access to treatments that can heal them. Beyond this, the bigger reason for being is to ensure the "worried well" - people like Tania and Tim - can access these treatments to raise consciousness, expand their beings, learn, and become curious.
Tania would put "be curious" on a billboard. These medicines help people be curious. In a world dominated by AI, we need to go back and be curious, start asking our own questions not just to AI but to ourselves and what's here. Tania encouraged everyone to keep asking questions and not outsource themselves to chatbots and robots.
Tim noted that sometimes it's good to take a break from going outside for entertainment and go inside for entertainment. There's a lot to be curious about inside. Tania shared that the greatest gift of these medicines was teaching her to explore her inner terrain. Though she was an extroverted performer, she now lies in bed every night exploring what's going on inside, something she couldn't have done without these medicines.
Tim observed that psychedelics are a category of catalysts that is very interesting. Many people listeners would associate with meditation actually never took up meditation until their mind was changed - the "cosmic egg cracked open" - by psychedelics. This is not to say you have to start with psychedelics, but many have been greatly informed by them. Ram Dass is cited as a primary example.
Tania shared something Ram Dass said when they were with him: "we're all walking each other home." This is one of the most important things these medicines teach - that we're all here together. We've come from whatever that place is, we're going back to whatever that place is, and we're here for a really short time. Tania writes songs about this concept.
Tim mentioned watching the documentary about the last chapters in Ram Dass's life called "Becoming Nobody," which Tania confirmed as the correct title.
The website is mindmedicineaustralia.org.au for trainings, resources, and considering donating to support the nonprofit. Tania also has a personal website at taniadejong.com. She welcomes outreach on any platform, particularly LinkedIn.
Tania gave a huge shout out to Tim for everything he's done not just in this field but for his willingness to question, be curious, hack himself, and find things to share with others. She stated that if it were not for Tim, they wouldn't be having this conversation and Australia probably would not be leading the world in this field. She thanked him for all the resources he gives people every single week, specifically mentioning his "five bullets."
Tim mentioned that when they first met, he never knew where things were going to end up, but Tania's work helped change a whole nation. Because Australia changed, that has changed the whole world. There's now a real possibility and real hope that we can heal some of the immense suffering in the world. They've seen the most devastating letters and emails from people who deserve a chance.
Tim reflected on writing his newsletter (Five Bullet Friday) for 10-15 years every week. Sometimes he wonders if anybody is reading it. He follows his own curiosity - if he finds something compelling even if he can't justify it, he gives it a shot because there are 8 billion people on the planet and there has to be at least one other person who might resonate.
Tim noted that Tania was an outsider who wasn't steeped in this from day one. She was able to experiment, test, cold email, offer to sing, and fly to Wisconsin. She moved mountains bit by bit by picking the right place to stick the Archimedes lever. This is an inspiring story that shows how much people can do if they increase their elbows and get after it.
Tania emphasized that you never know until you ask, and most people never ask. All you have to do is ask, and it's amazing how many people say yes. Literally just about no one has said no to joining their advisory panel. Literally just about no one they've ever asked to do a webinar has said no. People want to support good causes and good pioneering efforts.
Tania encouraged people to grab their dreams, ask for help, and then set them on fire - in a really good way. The TLDR is to get after it because we're all going to be dead and dust in no time flat. What have you got to lose? Seriously, what have you got to lose? Ask for it.
Tim reminded listeners to be a bit kinder than is necessary. Tania added loving kindness to others but also to yourself. The voice that you put out should echo if you're being compassionate. The voice that goes in. Do your best. It's hard.
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