Joe Rogan Experience #2438 - John Mellencamp
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
John Mellencamp owned a tattoo parlor in the mid-1980s in Bloomington, Indiana, where tattoos were illegal, but authorities allowed it because it was him. Joe Rogan got his first tattoo in Connecticut because they were illegal in New York. Mellencamp brought a tattoo artist from LA's Sunset Strip (across from Hyatt House), but the parlor was shut down because the artist was a heroin addict who botched a tattoo while high.
Heroin was rare in the 1980s; now opiate addiction is off the charts due to the Sackler family. Joe knew one guy with a friend who did heroin. Mellencamp's first exposure was at Bull Island (college event imitating Woodstock with 200,000 people), where he saw a guy shoot up publicly and pass out. He had a friend who was a functional longshoreman heroin addict: scored and shot up in his truck every lunch, held a union job, one shot lasted all day.
Last drugs in 1973. Liked smoking, drinking whiskey, then fighting for the rush, but couldn't win fights. In college, started a fight at a downtown bar by spitting on a big guy; got beaten badly in the alley. Roommate drove him home drunk in an old Pinto; Mellencamp fell out when hitting a track, hair caught in door latch, dragged until roommate stopped. Woke up unrecognizable with road rash, beat-up face, cut hair short, quit drugs and alcohol at 21. Nothing since—not a drop.
Joe's high school experience shaped by Mellencamp's songs like 'Jack & Diane,' introducing nostalgia. Lyrics like "life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone" captured adolescence's confusion. Mellencamp felt the same: despite huge hits, went home unhappy, thinking there's more to life. Realized later there's not; accept it, maintain humility, be good at it. We're on earth briefly—quit feeling sorry, accept responsibilities.
Early MTV made rock stardom visual, in every household via album covers and Tonight Show. Mellencamp attributes dissatisfaction to age and brain chemistry; snapped out of it like quitting drugs.
Luckiest guy Joe has interviewed. Born with spina bifida (hole in spine, fluid/nerve issues); scar on back of neck from 1951 operation. Parents (20 years older) gave him to grandmother. Young neurosurgeon Heinberger experimented on 5 kids; Mellencamp only survivor (others died within 6 months; one girl to 14 in wheelchair). Charged parents $1 as guinea pig. Procedure: cut head open, push nerve endings into spine, drain fluid, sew up. Parents told he'd die in 6-7 months from encephalitis. Played football, track, fought normally; unaware until 5th grade (1957-60). Parents never told him.
Panic disorder post-college, possibly from surgery; agoraphobia for 1.5 years, couldn't leave house. Got record deal, had to. Married at 18 in high school to 5-years-older woman; daughter now 50+. Has 3 girls, 2 boys; grandfather in 30s (daughter married at 19). Performed through panic attacks in front of 20,000; felt like can't breathe, chest hurts—powered through.
Had real heart attack on stage at Jones Beach 30 years ago. Led to staying home 3.5 years with new wife Elaine Irwin and young boys (not touring). Watched TV like normal people; boys loved Joe's Fear Factor, Mellencamp made deal: watch 60 Minutes first. > "You know what luck is? Thinking you're lucky. What you think about yourself all comes true."
Cholesterol 400-500 (family history, sister's 500); ignored doctors, avoided statins. Had arterial plaque. Now knows heart disease well. NY doctor (longevity expert) recommended metformin + statin for all Americans due to processed food. Mellencamp borderline diabetic; mom died of type 2 diabetes (ignored meds, ate Krispy Kreme donuts secretly).
US food terrible—processed, preservatives for shelf life; Europeans get sick eating it (e.g., bread). Nattokinase (from fermented natto): studies show high doses shrink arterial plaque 36%, reduce atherosclerosis. Ice cream sandwiches don't melt after 3 hours; McDonald's/Burger King hamburgers unchanged after 20-30 years.
Avoids politics to stay sane. Hippie upbringing: anyone over 30 enemy. Asked dad as kid if one guy killed Kennedy; dad replied, "What do you think?" Dad young Democrat, involved in party. Zapruder film (shown 12 years later on Herald Rivera by Dick Gregory) showed head went back/left, shot from front.
John Mellencamp's father responded to questions with looks rather than answers, like "what do you think, John? You really think somebody did that? Figure it out for yourself."
Not much has changed. Used to be politically minded and cared about politicians, but now don't give a fuck what they say, don't trust any of them. Hard to believe anything because everyone spins everything for their purposes. More aware now than ever, less trust in politics than ever, more people talking about politics, more polarization. When younger, no polarization between conservatives and liberals; could hang out, talk, didn't hate each other, just thought the other was a fool.
Voting used to be private: go inside, shut curtains, nobody else's business. For anybody doing good without hurting someone. Not for cheating, want morality, integrity in what you're saying and doing.
Never been that way. In the 60s as a hippie, Russia had missiles in Cuba, kids with long hair shot at Kent State, separation between adults and kids, change happening. Generation accomplished getting to wear blue jeans to work.
First generation realizing the war they were sold was bullshit. World War I and II fighters thought stopping evil dictators like Hitler. Just war, victorious return, national pride. Then Vietnam made no sense.
Civil War fought over ports. Port in Savannah, Georgia biggest in America, Boston and New York ports struggling. North wanted some business sent their way, South refused, North decided to take it. Sold to public as freeing slaves. Lived in house in the South, that's what it was about; slavery excuse because nobody cared about black people.
Counter on Slavery's Role
If spread wealth, would slavery have continued? Distaste for slavery already, not ubiquitous in North but in South due to plantations. Lincoln had slaves.
Lincoln Never Owned Slaves
Abraham Lincoln never personally owned slaves before, during, or after presidency per mainstream historical scholarship and Perplexity AI. Born in Kentucky, raised in Indiana and Illinois as non-slave owner, laborer, lawyer, politician, good wrestler. Related to slaveholders didn't make them his property; employed free servants in Illinois and Washington. Claims from fringe sources about inheriting via Todd estate rejected by Lincoln specialists.
Free Servants vs. Slavery
Free servants were paid. Still a minstrel show no matter how you call it. Interesting we're even talking about it. Crazy how recent: 1865 roughly two people ago (people live to 100).
In school, thought World War II ancient history. Born 1951, high school in 80s (WWII ended 1945), only 3-4 years post-war felt ancient. Now 1980s like to kids today: dinosaur days, no internet, big tube TVs (14-inch big).
Told dad neighbors had changer with cord; dad said change to channel 4 (he was the changer). Used pliers for stripped knobs: CBS on 5, ABC, NBC. Cable arrival: bananas, look at all channels. HBO premiere: Miracle Man movie past 11pm. TV signed off with American flag waving, music, Indian head test pattern, then nothing at 11pm.
Cable changed everything. HBO brought uncensored standup like Sam Kinison first time: wild raw comedy.
Sam Kinison Story
Kinison wild, unpredictable. Hit by truck as kid, normal before per brother Bill Kinison's book My Brother Sam, bad brain injury turned him maniac.
Grew up 80s, parents said go outside, see you at dark. Rode bike all over Seymour at 9-10, no supervision, responsibility to come home, no tracking. TV ads: "It's 10:00. Do you know where your children are?" Parents yelled kids' names from windows at dark: "Henry Earl!" signal to go home.
MTV: liked it. First band at 11, garage with records. Band Crepe Soul (or Grape Soul) at 14 playing bars; parents cool. With black kid Fred Booker, shared vocals, songs like "I'm Your Puppet," neighbor jackets, made out with 18-19 year old girls, played fraternities/sororities, $60 weekend, best dressed kid. Called "dressed up hood."
Choices: pro football, pro boxer, or singer. Boxed, liked contact, fights because of it, whip ass at 74. No pro matches, but son Hud national Golden Gloves champ twice, played football for Duke, 31 now.
College degree in broadcasting technology. At dances, thought could do better than bands. Joined Mason Brothers post-college, barroom singer, cover band, played weekends.
Mason Brothers Riverboat Disaster
Gig on Ohio River riverboat fraternity show. Dave (bass player, band leader) missed time change Seymour to Cincinnati, hour late, frat guys mad. Four 45-min sets, Dave drunk, fell overboard mid-set, fished out. Quit on Dave.
Band Collapse and Return
Drummer to med school, guitarist high school paperboy. Dave begged one more chance, promised new guys. Showed up unrehearsed: recruited high school sophomores who couldn't play (drummer boom boom crack). Halfway, made Dave lead singer, left embarrassed.
From town of 18,000, first plane to New York early 70s after coming into money (another story). Afraid, hid in hotel 2 days: prostitutes, pimps, homeless everywhere.
Austin has homeless, better than LA. Pandemic allowed street camping on Caesar Chavez, tents blocking joggers/bikes; former mayor cleaned up. Graffiti everywhere, not original: big black letters outlined yellow, same as NY/LA. If destroying property, at least be original artist, not tagging for gangs. Austin deteriorated less than others; Skid Row LA now 50 blocks homeless, nearly impassable.
Skid Row Experience
Accidentally drove through Skid Row 2000s filming Fear Factor: zombie movie. History: dumped homeless from Hollywood/Beverly Hills there, built as vagrant deposit.
Vagrancy Laws
Vagrancy law exists, not enforced. In Seymour, Indiana, enforced: cops move kids standing downtown too long.
Hotel Cecil documentary: beautiful hotel now disaster in downtown LA, homeless issue pushed there to protect Hollywood glamour. Downtown LA only major downtown nobody wants. Downtown NY vibrant with restaurants/shops, unlike 70s Times Square frightening.
First NY 1980/85-86 martial arts tournament, Times Square bad, peep shows, weird people at 18. From Boston, shocked by size. Stayed Holiday Inn 57th Street, peeked out curtains, agoraphobia, for record company demo meeting.
First called Dave for first record deal. Great bass player, didn't get shit together. Funny stories with Max's Kansas City. Now professor at Vince University teaching music, found God. Handsome, good player, young and clueless at 20-22.
After leaving Dave and the band, John Mellencamp never had a big break; it was a slow climb. At 22, he got a record deal with MCA, went to California, and met Mike Maitlin who hated his record but saw possibilities. Mellencamp stood up and said, "Motherfucker, you're an old man. What do you know about rock music?" (Maitlin was 40). He got dropped immediately, but some at MCA believed in him and helped. Introduced to Rod Stewart's manager Tony DeFries (who also managed David Bowie, Lou Reed, Mott the Hoople), he moved to England for two years, lived with the band in Chelsea, made a record as punk was starting with the Clash and Sex Pistols.
He played acoustic guitar there. "I Need a Lover" became number one in Australia due to their advanced rock TV shows; he had the top album and single there but couldn't fill a bar in Bloomington. A girl covered "I Need a Lover," hitting number 2 (his peaked at 30 or so)—that started it all. Lived in England 1976-77 during the National Front era ("if you're not English, get out"), where band members got beat up for non-English accents. Dangerous even to go to movies; had to keep head down, mouth shut. Left not due to that but anger at manager whom he couldn't reach by phone. Returned to US with Australian #1, but labels said "not many Australians in the US."
Built slowly; didn't care, refused to be "Johnny Cougar" initially. Tony DeFries made him start as Johnny Cougar (DeFries' real name David Jones, changed to Bowie). At 22, argued with 45-year-old successful manager, signed away publishing like many (Rolling Stones, Prince got car/ring/money). Got Mercury Records deal via manager's US news. Critics hated him for Johnny Cougar, compared to James Dean/Bruce Springsteen, called him "so American," hillbilly. Learned from good critics like friend Tim White (Rolling Stone/Billboard editor, wore bow tie/white bucks).
Tim White warned about signing with SoundScan (Billboard adopted it; rival Radio & Records nearly did). Pre-SoundScan: plays counted equally (Indianapolis = New York = 1 play), songs built cumulatively (20 plays week 1 + 20 week 2 = 40, climbing charts gradually; everyone heard rising hits). SoundScan weighted by market size (#1 song in NY = 5 points, Indianapolis = 0.5), favoring urban/R&B/rap stations in big cities (NY/LA/SF). Rock from places like St. Louis/Indianapolis got devalued. Rap exploded not just quality but due to this; record companies stopped advertising to rock stations, focused on R&B for payola. Napster then killed rock further—no top 100 rock bands now. Rock still popular for older stuff, but new bands rare.
Tired of arena cheerleader role ("Small Town," sing-alongs to 20,000 drunks), switched to theaters 20 years ago (signs: "Please recognize this is not a rock show. No standing. Sit if you want, stand if you want, but recognize what you're hearing"). Soft-spoken because deaf from music (no hearing protection back then; all rock stars/hunters deaf). Has 3 girls (15, 17, 28); stayed close through teens by working at it despite touring. Moved to Texas 6 years ago, now home more with comedy club.
Great time for standup despite lines—cross for those seeking offense, ignore; focus on audience laughter, avoid comments/Google. Never Googled self.
MTV 1981-82: few videos initially, but he had them from Australia experience (London club video made "I Need a Lover" #1 there). MTV played him constantly for content. First MTV promotion: gave away pink house in Bloomington, IN (Sykes/others bought on chemical dump from RCA; had to buy second). Went from unknown to mobbed fame; helped overcome agoraphobia (grew up publicly). Never wrote songs pre-deal (barroom singer of others like Dylan/Springsteen); started after signing despite dyslexia (songbooks illegible, needs transcriber).
Keep simple for radio. "Hurt So Good" written in shower. At Criteria Studios (Miami, early 80s, $500k budget), partied at Scaramoosh, only 3 songs in 6 weeks after prior top 20s ("I Need a Lover," "Ain't Even Done with the Night"). Label threatened drop; played "Jack & Diane," "Hurt So Good," "Hand to Hold on to"—hated as too raw/rough. "Jack & Diane" drum sound from Bee Gees' prototype drum machine (borrowed from engineer Al Schmitt to fix speeding drummer). Mick Ronson (Bowie's Ziggy Stardust guitarist) suggested baby rattles idea; kept machine in for perfect time/novelty (1981; Rogan was 14). Label hated but huge hit; compared to Romeo/Juliet, Frankie/Johnny in culture. Also Billy Joel's Brenda/Eddie.
John Mellencamp recalls critics disliking "Hand to Hold on to" and him personally, but "Jack and Diane" was hugely successful. Joe Rogan notes that his most successful venture, the podcast, had no external input; no one would have predicted unfiltered 3-hour conversations with random people drawing millions of listeners. Rogan started as a comic, got a development deal for a sitcom that was cancelled, then did successful "NewsRadio" which was also cancelled, leading to "Fear Factor" through weird circumstances and luck. Both express gratitude: Mellencamp walks into his house thinking "I get to live here," from a horrible start as Johnny Cougar to success after deciding "fuck you guys." After American Fool hits, no one has challenged him since; the label suits who were wrong are out of business. Rock critics couldn't ignore his radio dominance. Key to success: make songs undeniable. Critics hating can fuel greatness; even if undeniable, some will hate. Rogan cites a woman calling the Beatles terrible despite their greatness as one of the greatest bands ever—proves you can't make everyone happy; some don't want to be.
Beatles appealed to Mellencamp's generation transitioning from cartoons to rock; producer George Martin made comedy records and cartoons, bringing that sensibility. Four guys writing songs beats one. Mellencamp tells audiences: he's not for anybody. In theaters, he doesn't play all hits, but after 20 years, he's doing a 2.5-hour hits-only tour, including "I Need a Lover" not played in 25 years, reimagined fresh. "Jack and Diane" now jammed up as a soul song—a smash. Keeps melody, changes instruments; audience sings chorus. Acoustic versions let crowd sing entire song.
Rogan asks when Mellencamp dropped Cougar. Was John Cougar Mellencamp; confusing. Transitioned slowly: calls as John Mellencamp ignored, as John Cougar answered. Elvis Costello tried reverting to real name, failed. Mellencamp's slow burn worked—lucky. First Rogan recognized artists forced to change names. Movie stars all use stage names, e.g., Rock Hudson. Arnold Schwarzenegger kept real name despite difficulty; great governor of California, now a mess.
Last John Cougar Mellencamp album was Scarecrow with "Small Town" and five hit singles. Never written a song before; grew up in public. Songs now more mature. Wrote "Pop Singer" in 1991: never wanted to be a pop singer, sing pop songs, have manager hang out, be a musician not clown. MTV had clownish guys, sexism, no black artists except Michael Jackson. Sykes, Mellencamp, Don Henley, another convinced stations not to drop MTV over lack of black artists—worked.
MTV refused Mellencamp video for tattoo. Hip-hop/gangster rap rose via SoundScan. Friend Tim White predicted it; rock sidelined despite cultural importance and better songwriters—Rolling Stones new album unnoticed. Rogan saw Stones live at Circuit of the Americas: out-of-body, Mick Jagger in 80s jamming full energy, brings two gym trailers everywhere.
At Farm Aid since 1985, Mellencamp uses Neil Young's gym trailer (elliptical) during press conferences. Jagger impressive at 80s, full-on. People relate deeply to music; Mellencamp stayed in Bloomington thinking career short, bought house. With Bruce Springsteen (small shitty NJ town), they marvel "Can you fucking believe it?" Real gratitude vital.
Mellencamp asks audience: you're on a rock orbiting sun for millions of years; we're here a blink—stop worrying, don't take self seriously, have humility. Hates politics' lack of humility/respect. Rogan has "life is short even in its longest days" tattooed—grandma (lived to 100) said it at 98/99 when warning about cussing/wild living. Wrote song "Life is Short Even in Its Longest Days." Rogan 58, Mellencamp 74, looks great.
Performing different now; appreciates more. First greatest hits tour at 74; at 35 would've refused. Sean Penn convinced him: share best parts like movies. Few have enough hits for 2.5 hours. Doesn't encourage kids to work; son (31, Duke grad) lives on property—loves having kids there. Had kid in high school at 18 on drugs; early parenting was throwing water balloons. Dad advised have many kids for old age. Lost 7 best friends in 18 months to partying/drinking (e.g., Crown Royal daily); Tim White died elevator heart attack despite warnings.
Doctors urge quitting, but Mellencamp: find something you love and let it kill you. Heart still teen-like after long smoking, voice "sounds black." Smokes American Spirits; doctor Suzanne Humphrey says additives (120 chemicals) kill. Girlfriend hates it, ex-wife started after 20 years together. Started at 10, addicted in high school, smoked in storm cellar. Stress worse than smoking; relaxes, benefits outweigh for some. Friend had heart attacks from stress/anxiety despite healthy habits.
Knew Johnny Cash, saw in Jamaica. At Rock Hall of Fame soundcheck, Eagles/Don Henley perfectionist delayed; Cash irritated watching Mellencamp smoke, urged quitting—quit via London guy. Mellencamp noted Cash smoked too. Did "Ring of Fire"—Cash had temper.
John Mellencamp introduced him to his friend John Melam and started the song. He fell into "I Fell into" but didn't realize Mellencamp had changed the key lower due to smoking, so he couldn't hit the note or find it since it wasn't the original key. He can sing along perfectly with the recording. On stage, Chuck Berry and Springsteen were watching from the side, giving him looks like he was messing up. After the song, he ran off stage humiliated to his trailer. Mellencamp knocked, came in, said "I told you we should have soundchecked." This led to Mellencamp recommending a guy to quit smoking, so he and two others flew him from London. The solution was just a good talking-to; he was smoking on the way back to Indiana.
Quitting Smoking Stories
Ron White, who smokes his whole life, quit via hypnotist. Quit drinking easily years back with hypnotist, and recently (last 3-4 weeks) quit smoking at almost 70. Hypnotist removed the desire. Cravings hit briefly after sex or meals, but fade quickly. He's too old for sex worries, though Ron still does.
Friends with the Newman family. Paul quit smoking and died right after at 83. Smoking contributed to health problems. > "Find what you love and let it kill you."
Hustler is one of his favorite movies. Close friends with Joanne Woodward, who became his girlfriend after Paul died. They'd talk on phone, he'd take her to plays in New York or her town north of New York, pinch her ass playfully. She started calling him Paul, so he'd correct her: "Joanne, it's not Paul, I'm John." Still visits her though less than he should. She has dementia, can't talk much, but he's happy to see her, plays and sings guitar for her. Thinks she recognizes him. Loves her, calls her a great woman.
Meeting the Newmans
Met at Democratic event for John Kerry at Radio City. Has son named Hud (from Paul Newman's movie Hud). Newman entered dressing room looking for "Hud Malanchamp." Hud was running around backstage at Radio City. Newman and he talked; Joanne entered, stunning even in late 50s, one of the prettiest women he'd seen. That's how they became friends; even before Paul died, he and Joanne talked often.
Sad seeing her deteriorated. Recommends The Fugitive Kind (Tennessee Williams, stars Brando and Joanne Woodward)—one of his favorite movies ever. Watches only black-and-white old movies, not new ones. Knows old movies well, doesn't know current entertainment figures except guys his age. Knows Sean Penn since he was a kid, before Fast Times at Ridgemont High—great comedy they couldn't make today due to political correctness and woke movement.
Great comedy movies like inappropriate ones died. Why care about criticism (e.g., Al Franken, SNL writer, at 86)? Climate got crazy, massive overcorrection, now turning around. Can't make Tropical Thunder-style outrageous comedies; no funding due to heat and criticism. Standup thrives—people come, laugh, critics irrelevant. Favorite current standups: Chappelle (greatest alive), Bill Burr, Shane Gillis, Jim Jefferies, David Tell (unheralded great). Amazing time with more huge comics than ever via YouTube, Instagram, Netflix. More arena sellouts in standup history. Do what you think is funny, work hard, ignore haters and criticism or it'll kill you.
Best standup movie: First Richard Pryor, Live on the Sunset Strip changed his life (third one). Wanted before that in New Orleans; one filmed in Long Beach. Phenomenal. People still entering, sitting as Pryor starts, messing with them. Had musical opening act Patti LaBelle, thanked her. Saw it in 1979 in black part of Miami, Florida, with band guys. Bandmate Ferd walked in grabbing his dick idiotically to show off; told him to stop.
Parents took him as high school kid (~15) to Live in the Sunset Strip. Unbelievable how one man talking was funnier than comedy movies; crowd falling out, slapping each other.
Pryor Backstory
That was take two; first bombed because he did show backwards (started at end, worked forward). He'd tweak material at Comedy Store—bomb Monday, destroy Friday with Paul Mooney (his writer). Knew Mooney well from Comedy Store.
Played Comedy Store a lot, home club in LA. Auditioned 1994 after moving from New York to LA for sitcom (did for money, didn't care). From Boston start in '88, heard about Comedy Store as Mecca—Sam Kinison, Richard Pryor, Bill Hicks, David Letterman, Robin Williams came from there.
Friends with Letterman (from Indianapolis). Letterman's mom and stepdad visited his Bloomington house for dinner. Did Letterman appearances: cooked cake with his mom in Indianapolis for David's birthday. Likes Letterman, always nice. Mom said when Mellencamp released first album and David did local weather, he told her: "If that kid can go out and do it, I can too."
John thanks Joe; real pleasure, big fan for years. Invites to show; tour on johnmellencamp.com. Joe will find it. Comments on tattoos positively.
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