Military Drones | 60 Minutes Full Episodes
In a Nutshell
The 60 Minutes episode explores the US military's rapid shift to autonomous drones like Perdix swarms (up to 104 launched from F-18s), AI-powered robots for reconnaissance and targeting, and Anduril's AI weapons (e.g., Roadrunner, Fury jet), emphasizing faster, expendable systems that reduce human risk but raise ethical debates on machines making lethal decisions—Pentagon policy mandates human oversight. Mystery drone swarms over US bases like Langley AFB (dozens nightly for 17 days in 2023) exposed detection gaps, prompting NORAD upgrades and counter-drone kits within a year, amid fears of foreign spying. Germany is rearming aggressively post-Ukraine war, targeting war readiness by 2029 with €100B+ spending, drone contracts, innovative bio-swarms, and 5,000 troops to Lithuania, ditching pacifism for NATO deterrence.
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
One of the biggest revolutions over the past 15 years of war has been the rise of drones, remotely piloted vehicles that conduct air strikes and dismantle roadside bombs. A new generation of autonomous drones operates without humans controlling them from a joystick. Some use artificial intelligence to learn and improve. No one knows exactly where this revolution is headed, but the potential exists for all missions too dangerous or complex for humans to be turned over to autonomous machines that make decisions faster and go into harm's way without fear.
Think of it as the coming swarm. This swarm over the California desert is like nothing the US military has fielded before. Each tiny drone flies itself. Humans on the ground gave them a mission to patrol a three square mile area, but the drones figure out how to do it autonomously.
Pentagon's Dr. Will Roper, head of the once-secret Strategic Capabilities Office, says, "What you're seeing is a glimpse into the future of combat. It opens up a completely different level of warfare, a completely different level of maneuver."
The drone is called Perdix, named after a bird from Greek mythology. Roper remembers the first time he saw Perdix: "I held it up in my hand. It's about as big as my hand. And I looked at it and said, 'Really? This is what you want me to get excited about? You know, it looks like a toy.'"
Perdix flies too fast and too high to follow, so 60 Minutes used specialized high-speed cameras at the China Lake Weapons Station in California to capture it. Developed by 20- and 30-somethings from MIT's Lincoln Labs, Perdix operates as a team, visible when following a group of eight on a computer screen.
"We've given them a mission at this point, and that mission is as a team, go fly down the road. And so they allocate that amongst all the individual Perdix and they're talking to each other by radios, each telling each other not just what they're doing but where they are in space. How frequently are they talking? Many times a second when they're first sorting out. You want them to converge to a good enough solution and go ahead. It's faster than a human would sort it out."
Cheap and expendable, Perdix tries to make a soft landing, but it's no great loss if it crashes.
Perdix can be used as decoys to confuse enemy air defenses, equipped with electronic transmitters to jam radar, or as a swarm of miniature spy planes with cell phone cameras to hunt fleeing terrorists. "There are several different roads they could have gone down and you don't know which one to search. You can tell them go search all the roads and tell them what to search for and let them sort out the best way to do it."
The Pentagon spends $3 billion a year on autonomous systems, many more sophisticated than a Perdix swarm.
This pair of air and ground robots runs on artificial intelligence. Marine Captain Jim Panero starts reconnaissance; they search a mocked village for a suspected terrorist, reporting back to his tablet. "The ground robot's continuing on its mission while the air robot is searching on its own."
The robots are slow and cumbersome but test beds for cutting-edge computer software to power more agile machines as advanced scouts for foot patrols. "I would want to use a system like this to move in front of me or in advance to give early warning of enemy in the area."
This time the correspondent is the target. The computer knows what he looks like and matches it as he moves around the make-believe village. Tim Faltomire says, "Learning what you look like is we were able to get every picture of every story that you've ever been in. When we ran this through, we have about 50,000 different pictures of you. Had we had more time, we probably could have done a better job."
"Because you've got 50,000 images of me, how certain would you be?" "Very. It recognized you instantly. What we reported today on our scores were about a 1 in 10,000 chance of being wrong."
While the robot searched inside an auditorium at the Marine Corps base in Quantico, Virginia, Lieutenant Commander Ry Wixs watched from a missile boat in the Potomac River. "What I was doing was turning over control of the weapon system to the autonomous systems. Had Wix given permission to shoot, the missile would have struck using coordinates from the robots. They were controlling a remote weapon system, where that weapon system was pointing with me supervising."
It will be about 3 years before these robots are ready for the battlefield, looking considerably different. "Will those robots when they reach the battlefield be able to defend themselves?" "We are looking into defensive capability for robot, armed robots, shoot back."
Pentagon directive: autonomous systems shall be designed to allow commanders and operators to exercise appropriate levels of human judgment over the use of force. General Paul Silva, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and military's man in charge of autonomy, says life or death decisions will be made only by humans, even though machines can do it faster and better.
"Are machines better at facial recognition than humans?" "All the research I've seen says about 5 years ago, machines got better at image recognition than humans."
"Can a disguise defeat machine recognition? If you think about the proportions of a human body, there are several that are discreet and difficult to hide. The distance between your pupils is very likely unique to you and a handful of other humans. A disguise cannot move your eyes. So if I have a ski mask on, that doesn't help. Not if your eyes are visible. If you have to see, you can't change that proportion."
"So if the machine's better, why not let it make the decision?" "This goes to the ethics of whether you'll allow a machine to take a human life without human intervention. Do you know where this is headed? I don't."
Virtually any military vehicle has potential to become autonomous. Navy testing Sea Hunter, an autonomous ship to track submarines. Program manager Scott Littlefield: when no crew needed, "You could buy somewhere between 50 and 100 of these for the price of one warship."
"I've heard somebody describe this ship as looking like an overgrown Polynesian war canoe. Why does it look like it does? To go across the Pacific Ocean without refueling, this hull form that the trimaran was the best. What is its range? We can go about 10,000 nautical miles on 14,000 gallons."
Sea Hunter is at least 2 years from steaming across the Pacific on its own, needs to learn rules of the road to avoid collisions. When testing done, pilot house comes off, crew waves goodbye. Ghost ship commanded by 36 computers running 50 million lines of software code. Top speed 26 knots, tight turning radius to track diesel-powered submarines for weeks. "Many countries have diesel submarines: China, Russia, Iran, North Korea."
Tiny Perdix closest to operational if it passes final exam. Will Roper and team attempt largest autonomous swarm ever: 100 Perdix drones. "This is one of the riskiest, most exciting things in the Pentagon."
Risky because swarm more than 3 times larger than anything before, and 60 Minutes recording. "Why let us watch? My first response was that sounds like a horrible idea. I don't want this to fail on camera. But I did not like the fear of failure being my only reason. We wanted the world to see we're doing new things."
Launched from 3 F-18 jet fighters at almost speed of sound. "Despite 104 alive, that's 104 in the swarm. They flash in the sun, organize into tighter swarm. Look at them, everywhere, like a plague of locusts."
Reams of data to analyze, but Roper confident Perdix passed. Could become operational as early as this year. "I've heard people say autonomy is the biggest thing in military technology since nuclear weapons. Really? I think I might agree. If what we mean is biggest thing is something that's going to change everything, I think autonomy is going to change everything."
Over the last decade, tech billionaires position as visionary saviors. Palmer Luckey, founder of Anduril, California defense company. US military relies on overpriced, outdated technology. Tesla has better AI than US aircraft; Roomba better autonomy than most Pentagon weapons. Anduril makes autonomous weapons using AI, no human required. Some call them killer robots, but Luckey says it's the future of warfare.
"I've always said we need to transition from being the world police to being the world gun store. Do we want to be the world's gun store? I think so. I think we have to."
Luckey, 32-year-old billionaire, daily uniform flip-flops and Hawaiian shirt. Anduril's American-made autonomous weapons: Roadrunner, twin turbojet-powered drone interceptor that takes off, identifies, strikes; lands and tries again if no target. Headsets for soldiers to see 360° in combat. Electromagnetic warfare system to jam enemy systems, knock out drone swarms. Systems used by US military and in Ukraine war.
"We shouldn't send our people to stand in other countries putting sons and daughters at risk. You'd rather have an American-made product in their hands than our soldiers? Absolutely. Autonomy powerful: one guy commanding 100 aircraft easier than pilot in every one, fewer American lives at risk."
Autonomy not remote controlled: programmed task, AI for surveillance, identify, select, engage targets. No operator needed.
"It's a scary idea to some. It's scary, but scarier to imagine weapon without intelligence. No moral high ground to landmine that can't tell school bus from Russian armor. Not smart vs no weapons, but smart vs dumb weapons."
Lattis collects data from satellites, drones, radar, cameras; AI analyzes, moves assets, executes missions faster than human. "Requiring human to map every action would take so long you'd be better off remote piloting. AI on board makes it easy."
"People say AI will go rogue. Be aware, but more terrified of evil people with mediocre tech than AI wiping us out. All Anduril weapons have kill switch for human intervention."
UN Secretary General calls lethal autonomous weapons "politically unacceptable and morally repugnant." "When people say it's evil? I usually don't bother. Do you think NATO should be armed with squirt guns or slingshots? Sternly worded letters? Our society exists because of credible threat of violence by US and allies."
Autonomous weapons promote peace by deterring adversaries. "US needs to arm allies as prickly porcupines nobody wants to bite. Is deterrence enough or must be deployed? They have to believe you can use them."
By end of year, Anduril secures $6 billion in government contracts worldwide.
"When you walked into Pentagon in Hawaiian shirt and flip-flops, welcomed? Very small number welcomed with open arms, everyone else thought I was nuts. No new company in defense since end of Cold War. Five primes dominate. Primes present idea, Pentagon pays to develop even if late or over budget."
Anduril not defense contractor but defense product company. "Contractors paid whether succeeds. Product company puts own money, time. Show up with working product, risk baked out, save hundreds of billions."
Luckey's father car salesman, mother homeschooled him and sisters. Tinkered in garage in Long Beach, California. Age 19, founded Oculus VR; age 21, sold to Facebook for $2 billion. Fired two years later. "Boils down to I gave $9,000 to political group for Trump against Hillary. Trump supporter in 2016 at height of Silicon Valley derangement."
Zuckerberg denies firing for politics. On tech leaders behind Trump at inauguration: "Inclined to let them get away with it. Coming around to view aligned with American people good. Not good for techno elites out of step."
2017, left Silicon Valley with hundreds of millions, chip on shoulder. "Fired at height of career, wanted to prove not one-hit wonder. Thought about obesity, prisons, but broke into defense."
"Run into people not taking seriously because never military? Owe to James Bond. Military seen movies, I'm wacky gadget man."
Anduril's 640,000 sq ft headquarters in Costa Mesa, California: high-tech carpentry, robotic engineering.
Off-campus: 1985 Humvee; owns decommissioned Blackhawk helicopter, 48' crew submarine, Navy speedboat. In Dana Point, ride to Dive-L submarine, school bus size, autonomous. "Not remote controlled. Doing it on brain on submarine. Months-long mission: go to target, listen for signature, run, hide, follow. Without detection or communication. Can travel 1,000 miles fully submerged. Australia invested $58 million to defend seas from China."
Most anticipated: Fury unmanned fighter jet, no cockpit. "Robotic fighter jet flying with manned fighters, doing what asked, recommending, taking risks human pilots don't."
Anduril beat primes for Air Force unmanned fighter jet contract. Fury first test flight this summer, produced in US.
"War games say run out of munitions in 8 days vs China. Fight Iran, China, Russia: screwed. Anduril's place: connect systems not talking, make large numbers cruise missiles, fighter jets, surface/subsurface. Hope making most stuff day 9, 10, 11, 100 from our factories after others dry."
Head of NORAD and Northcom told Congress some mysterious drones flying inside US may have been spying. 60 Minutes investigated similar incidents over 5 years, including New Jersey flyovers. Drones appeared over restricted civilian or military sites, coming and going under radar. Wakeup call just over a year ago when drones invaded skies
Jonathan Butner witnessed reddish orange flashing lights coming from the Virginia Beach area around 7:00 PM on December 14th, 2023, at his family's cabin on the James River in Virginia, about 100 miles south of Washington DC, with a view of several military installations. They came in one at a time, then like on a conveyor belt, upwards of 40 plus in total, going directly over Langley Air Force Base. Langley is one of the most critical air bases on the east coast, home to dozens of F-22 Raptors, the most advanced stealth fighter jets ever built. Butner is familiar with military craft like Blackhawks and F-22s; these were like nothing he's seen. He took iPhone videos for nearly an hour and a half—the only public videos of the drones over Langley. He shared them with the FBI. Reports came in of 20 to 30 sightings, same time every evening, 30 to 45 minutes after sunset, over 17 nights, forcing relocation of F-22s.
Retired four-star General Mark Kelly, highest ranking officer at Langley to witness the swarm, went to the roof of a squadron headquarters. He saw different sizes of incursions of aircraft, different altitudes, different air speeds. Some rather loud, some not. Smallest like a commercial size quadcopter; largest size of a bass boat or small car.
General Glenn VanHerck, former joint commander of NORAD and Northcom, provided support with fighters, airborne warning and control platforms, helicopters. NORAD's Cold War radar systems for high altitude airspace or missile attacks couldn't detect low-flying drones visible to the naked eye. 10 months earlier, he ordered an F-22 from Langley to shoot down a Chinese spy balloon over the Atlantic.
Why don't we just shoot them down? >> Well, first you have to have the capability to detect, track, identify, make sure it's not a civilian airplane. If you can do that, then it becomes a safety issue for the American public. Firing missiles in our homeland is not taken lightly.
We're not able to track them. We're not able to see where they originate. >> No, it's a capability gap. They can come and go from any direction.
FBI looking at options but no answer. Similar encroachments for over 5 years.
2019: Naval warships training off California coast shadowed for weeks by dozens of drones. Ship's logs identified them as drones, suspected from Hong Kong flagged freighter nearby but unproven. Defense news site The War Zone documented dozens of intrusions: 2019 Palo Verde nuclear plant in Arizona (largest power producer); 2024 experimental weapons site in Southern California (next generation stealth bombers); last December 11 drone sightings over Picatinny Arsenal in northern New Jersey (advanced weapons designed and built), igniting public frenzy with UFO sightings in region. New Jersey epicenter of drone mystery. While focused there, swarm disrupted UK air base storing US nuclear weapons.
Republican Senator Roger Wicker, chairman of Armed Services Committee:
Do you believe these drones are a spying system? >> What would a logical person conclude—that these are spying incursions? I am privy to classified briefings at the highest level. The Pentagon and national security advisors are still mystified.
Some F-22s at Langley moved for protection. Drones that spy can destroy: Ukrainian drones destroyed advanced aircraft deep in Russia. VanHerck: Drones could drop ordnance, bombs, crash into F-22s on flight line—absolutely a concern. Small UAS can do myriad missions. President Biden informed; White House meetings held. After 17 nights, drones stopped. Senior Biden official downplayed as likely hobbyists.
Did you rule out hobbyists? >> No. It would be my assessment they weren't hobbyists because of the magnitude, sizes, duration.
So, what's going on? >> I wish I had the answer. Could have foreign nexus, threat nexus. Surveilling critical infrastructure or embarrassing us that they can do this daily and we can't respond.
Overseas, US military uses gunfire, missiles, jamming; at home, threatens civilians.
General Gregory Guillot, current NORAD/Northcom commander, ordered 90-day assessment; Langley UAVs centerpiece.
We're the most powerful military and yet drones could fly over a major air force base and we couldn't stop them. >> The threat got ahead of our ability to detect and track. All eyes were overseas where UAVs attacked US/coalition members; US threat caught us by surprise.
Today, probably not detect low-altitude swarm with standard FAA/surveillance radars. Bureaucracy: Outside base perimeter, jurisdiction with Coast Guard, FAA, FBI, local police—no one agency in charge.
What happened at Langley? >> Investigation ongoing; don't know entirely. White House says not a threat—this is alarming, hair on fire time.
It is alarming and our hair is on fire in Northcom in a controlled way and we're moving out extremely quickly.
November: Guillot given authority to coordinate across agencies. New sensitive radar at strategic bases; developing flyaway kits with anti-drone tech for besieged bases.
Goal inside a year to have flyaway kit capability. Within a year, if Langley happens again, ability to respond. >> That's my goal.
VanHerck: Pentagon, White House, Congress underestimated vulnerability too long. One year since Langley, no policies/laws—that's not urgency. Perception of fortress America with oceans and friendly nations.
It's time we move beyond that assumption.
Ukraine's President Zelenskyy reasserted no surrender of territory for peace with Russia, after Putin's warnings Europe would be defeated if wider war. Conflict sends shockwaves; Europe beefing up defenses, especially Germany. Post-Cold War, Germans embraced pacifism; defense spending collapsed, soldiers buying own gear. Russia's Ukraine invasion plus Trump pressure transformed landscape; Germany racing to rearm.
Observed basic training at Münster Army base: recruits honing skills to defend against assault. Major training since 2018 (name shielded):
Huge difference in recruits today—they know what they're here for, getting clearer everything could be real one day because of Ukraine war.
Defense Minister Boris Pistorius oversaw 23% uptick in enlistments. War in Ukraine changing Germany's security view:
Grew up in Cold War; since February 2022, war is back in Germany/Europe. We never expected; have to deter and defend.
Appointed 2023 under Chancellor Olaf Scholz; kept by new Chancellor Friedrich Merz (May). At Bendlerblock (former Nazi high command, now defense HQ):
Putin wants renaissance of Soviet Empire, dominant power in Europe, third world power with China/US.
Russia rebuilding military; could attack West by end of decade.
Germany needs to be ready for war by 2029. That's our objective.
3 days after 2022 invasion, Scholz announced €100 billion fund as Zeitenwende. Merz troubled by Trump NATO threats:
Absolute priority: strengthen Europe for independence from USA step by step.
After meeting Zelenskyy (February): "Must never confuse aggressor and victim." Pushed exempting defense from debt brake. Budget to rise almost 80% by 2029. Germany third biggest economy, expected strongest NATO ally in Europe.
Sven Krüger, co-CEO Quantum Systems: €25 million contract for up to €750 million ISR drones. 1,500+ at Ukraine battlefront daily. Quantum drone with thermal camera helped stop Russian Donets River crossing post-2022 invasion.
Germany funding tests of Madagascar hissing cockroaches as battlefield assets. Stefan Wilhelm, Swarm Biotics startup: Steer autonomously for recon via electrodes on antennae (no pain), backpacks with battery/microchips, shrinking tech. Can crawl tiny spaces, walls, pipes, rubble. AI video: deploy with cameras, mics, Doppler radar.
Russia rearming with tanks/armaments—how compete? >> Be smarter, use intelligence/autonomy; not enough personnel/equipment vs Russia production. Shift in German startups.
Rheinmetall: Armin Papperger CEO since 2013. Fastest growing defense company in Europe; from ammo to vehicles, digitization, satellites, naval. Target of Russian assassination plot. Building/expanding 13 factories across Europe.
Two generations educated to call Washington for help—that changed. Trump: America has problems, Europe help selves. Ukraine war clear: do more.
2024: Germany sending 45th Armored Brigade, 5,000 troops to Lithuania (first permanent combat-ready brigade abroad since WWII), bolstering NATO eastern flank.
Bundeswehr wants +75,000 active duty troops by 2035 (all-volunteer). History sparks protests; poll: overwhelming majority 15-25 year olds won't take up arms. May reintroduce draft. Recruits: Reluctance due to WWII history.
Private Lasse: Proud to serve. Nobody wants war, but if happens, defend country.
Pistorius at public swearing-in of recruits in Berlin: "Deutschland!"
World hasn't heard Germany assert like this since WWII. When rebuilding military, many recoil. If you want peace, freedom, security, right to demonstrate/love/believe freely, must defend it—or Putin will take it away.
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