A child psychologist’s guide to working with difficult adults | Dr. Becky Kennedy
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Most adults in the corporate environment are really just babies in disguise. All humans need the same things whether we're one, five, 45, or 85. Bad behavior stems from lacking the skill to manage internal experiences. Love your advice. It works not just for kids, it works for adults. Parenting philosophy is resilience over happiness. Resilient work culture wants people who can say this is hard and I can do hard things. Teach kids are good inside no matter their behavior. Idea of being good inside requires separating behavior and identity. Infer a lot from people's behavior. Someone late to work a lot: that person's lazy. Quickest way to unproductive conversation is losing sight that someone's good inside.
Boundaries are what you tell someone else you will do, requiring the other person to do nothing. Making a request is not a boundary. Today, guest is Dr. Becky Kennedy, clinical psychologist, author, CEO of Good Inside (parenting book, podcast, community, app). Many workplace people act like babies: mad when sharing stuff, need to be center of attention, upset not getting their way, need others to fix things. Bridges gap between parenting advice and leadership advice. Power of repair, building resilience over short-term happiness, goal as leader to become sturdy, curiosity over judgment, most generous interpretation framework, specific phrases for kids and adults.
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Dr. Becky excited, avid listener. Good Inside helps parents but core principles understand humans, self, relationships, why we act in systems. Systems: family, workplace, marriage, siblings, extended family. Principles apply to any system. Efficiency-oriented: one system for parenting and workplace leadership. Whether parent or leader, same principles. Learn one, apply to multiple for better relationships.
Ryas Doshi rant: adults in corporate are babies in disguise. Want center of attention, don't share resources/budget/people, irrationally upset not getting way, power struggles, need others to fix things. Example: toddler throws Yoto player, demands pick it up. Understanding babies/toddlers helps in corporate.
Dr. Becky's most generous interpretation: all humans need same things at any age. Unmet needs lead to ineffective expression.
Repair is number one relationship strategy: go back after un-proud moment, take responsibility, acknowledge impact, say what you'd do differently. False idea: goal to be perfect. In family and work: perfect is creepy. Only nonhumans perfect. Human condition: want to do well, mess up, repair. Secure attachment defined by repair, not perfection. Hopeful: realistic to get good at repair.
Examples:
- To kid: Sorry I yelled. Stressful day at work wasn't your fault. Working on staying calmer.
- To team: Earlier meeting, cut you off, harsh tone. Disagreed but no excuse. Stuff before meeting. Sorry, working on it.
Repair reestablishes trust/connection, leads to better cooperation, avoids defensiveness, more productivity.
Like radical candor: challenge directly, care deeply. Example outside parenting: on couch settling in, husband says do taxes now or you're listening problem, no dessert week. No one says I have listening problem, say husband problem. But do this to kids/work all time.
Better: Realize didn't tell you, taxes tonight. Settling into book. Get on top together? Same team? Chances skyrockets.
Why: sees you as full human in your reality/priorities, forms bridge. Connection forms bridge for acting together in same interest. Foundation for cooperation/productivity.
How to Connect
Mindset first: feel intention, not just intervention. Same words differ by mindset. Without agenda mindset, even 30 seconds. Hard, increasingly rare. Connection: no one wants something, just sees/recognizes.
Examples:
- Kid: hand on back longer than natural. I'm happy to see you. Watch play, describe: you're making tall tower (not pepper questions or direct play).
- Work: Hey, tell me about long weekend (not countdown to agenda).
Efficiency vs relationship building oppose. Efficiency reinforced at work, can have morality about it. Dropping into relationship feels low stim/awkward/slow: sign you're doing it right. Best leaders listen, care, unrushed.
Kids good inside no matter behavior. Useful at work? Separate behavior and identity. Don't ignore behavior: kid hitting or employee late PRDs matter.
Collapse behavior/identity causes issues. Infer from behavior: late = lazy. Good inside: good person who's late (hand gesture separates).
Defensiveness: feel attack on identity, can't discuss behavior.
Good inside conversation (late employee):
We're on the same team. Know you're good person. Don't need to tell you meetings start on time. Happening consistently, something going on. Need you at 9am leadership meeting. What's going on? Work feels bad? Home? Time management? Get to bottom together.
Like good sports coach: good player, something's going on. Gym tomorrow, believe in you, bench now, figure out together.
Start: admit they know right thing, something blocking.
If talk behavior first, they hear identity attack. Debate becomes if good/worthy person, not effective.
Allergy to non-actionable ideas. Good inside too theoretical: need tool. Started parenting: end day disaster, talking about kid changed, even language.
Even through language, parents can stop liking their kid. Language impacts thoughts. The story you tell yourself as a parent at night becomes the parent you are the next morning. Similarly, the story you tell yourself about your organization becomes the leader you are the next morning. Realized using the least generous interpretation (LGI). See kid not listening and laughing during discipline, first thought is kid is a sociopath—even for a 2-year-old. To shift to a good inside mindset, use most generous interpretation (MGI) of behavior.
Example: Kid told, "Stop jumping on the couch. It's dangerous. You're near the glass table." Kid jumps doubly hard. LGI: sociopath. MGI: kid oriented around wanting control; when threatened, doubles down. Not people-pleasing (third child). "I'm disappointed in you" won't work.
Benefits of MGI:
- Started liking kid again. Parents worry about slowly stopping liking their kids based on descriptions.
- Realized we're on the same team.
- Came up with different interventions.
At work: Someone belaboring point in meeting after others moved on. LGI: being a baby, vain. MGI: didn't feel heard first time. In private: "Something happens in meetings where I wonder if you don't always feel heard, then you keep talking, room gets annoyed, we tune you out more, bad cycle. Can we work together to change?" One conversation through MGI lens moves things productively, instead of complaining which harms culture and productivity.
Assumes people are smart, trying their best, good inside. Curiosity over judgment: figure out what's missing. Cannot be judgmental when curious.
Use language that hits your heart: MGI, assume good inside, assume positive intent.
Assume person wants to work through this. Kids who hit don't like feeling out of control. Kids lying don't want to lie. Softens us, realizes same team, want same outcome.
Parent example: kid throwing things, resisting car. Baseline: trained in reward/punishment, timeouts, sticker charts. Loved it—left brain loves logic, linearity. But as parent, no linearity. Brain wants system: punish bad, reward good. Ignores raising humans, just behaviors.
Contradicts what helps adults change: no way what helps 35-year-old rewire brain opposes what 2- or 5-year-old needs for resilience/confidence.
"You're making a bad choice" separates good person/bad choice, but 4-year-old throwing isn't deciding. Adults escalate too, not deciding.
Key insight: Kids born with all feelings, none of skills to manage. Bad behavior = feelings overpower skills. Behavior manifestation, not core problem. Core: lacks skill to manage internal. If had skill, behavior changes.
Examples: Kid hits from tiredness, anger over sibling toy, jealousy. "I don't care what you say" = out of control.
Think like coach. Don't punish into learning to swim—absurd to send to room to "learn how to swim." Managing emotions more important life skill. Nobody learns skills via shame/room—widens feelings-skills gap.
Set boundaries around out-of-control behavior, teach missing skills. Changes behavior short- and long-term.
Potty training = potty learning. Teach steps like alphabet, not training.
Dr. Becky has free potty learning course at goodinside.com (Google "good inside potty"). Free to avoid parental takeover, stress. Early lesson in body autonomy, skills.
Kids control two things: what goes in/out body. Heated because parents step into domains. Non-people-pleasers resist strongly.
Human lesson: limited control areas. Kids' day: woken, told weather, can't wear that, breakfast, shirt wrong. Adult would be bad mood, grasp control elsewhere to assert self.
Workplace: resilient rebels—strong-willed, core fear loss of control. Attuned to domain invasion, resist. Tricky to collaborate.
Example: Ask switch meeting time, reacts like knife to heart. Deeper: recent promotion skip, manager change, vacation denied. Manifests as control/independence issues.
Takeaway: Clarify ownership—what you own/drive vs. involvement. Name intention: "Want to review project to get ahead, help you do independent work."
People interpret behavior through named intention (not control). Crucial for control-sensitive.
Micromanaging hated because threatens control.
Good Inside helps parents become sturdy leaders for sturdy, confident kids. "Sturdy" conjures image/feeling—locate sturdy person in life.
Best leaders sturdy. Metaphor: turbulent flight, passengers screaming.
Three pilot announcements:
- "What are you freaking out about? Stop screaming, making flight awful, distracting." (Parent: "Stop freaking out, ruining for everyone." Leader: "Stop complaining.") Doesn't calm—worried pilot doesn't notice, loses it easily. Less safe.
- "I hear screaming. Opening cockpit—anyone want to fly? Screaming makes me anxious." (Overcorrection: kid upset, feelings dictate decisions.) Terrifying—scared of leader, not turbulence. Leader: consensus on leadership decisions.
- Sturdy: "I hear screaming, makes sense—you haven't been on many flights. It's bumpy. I know what I'm doing. Turbulence scares you, not me. Getting off loudspeaker to do job. See you in LA."
Contains worry. Sees emotional experience as real, not overwhelmed. Two aspects:
- See other's experience real for them.
- Hold own experience, not overwhelmed.
Parent example: TV time over, kid freaks. "I'm turning TV off. My decision. I get you're upset. I don't like ending TV either. We'll get through. Do your thing, then brush teeth."
Work: Policy change (e.g., office days). "New policy. Big change, makes things hard, feelings make sense. Why we're doing, faith we'll weather turbulence."
Sturdy leadership feels good everywhere: kids, workplace, in-laws.
Two sturdy leader jobs: 1) Set boundaries (limits/decisions from authority, long-term goals). 2) Validate experience without being taken over.
Validating alone incomplete—half job. Need boundaries too.
Boundaries definition: What you will do. Other does nothing. Not requests (e.g., "Don't press buttons—rude." Kid controls success.)
"My kid/colleague doesn't respect boundaries" = likely request, not boundary. Gives power away.
Bet on parent over kid.
Example: Non-people-pleaser kid presses all elevator buttons. Boundary: "I'm standing between you and buttons—won't let you press, others waiting." Block if lunge.
Validate: "I know you wish you could press." Hold boundary—no threats ("No dessert"). Threats undermine authority, lead to frustration, eventual cave (sorbet loophole).
Job confusion: Asking kid to do your job, avoiding emotional fallout. Frustrates everyone.
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Parenting question on boundaries: If child won't go to car and parent says "I'm going to carry you if you don't," is there a way to phrase so they don't need to do anything? Boundaries are something parent will do, requiring kid to do nothing. Try games, songs first. Intention matters: Carry to prevent lateness, yelling, frustration—parent and kid on same team.
Example phrasing: "It looks like it's hard for you to get to the car. I don't want to do this, but I'm going to turn around, take a deep breath. If by the time I turn around you're still here, I'm going to pick you up, carry you to the car even if you're crying, kicking, screaming, sweetie. I know it's hard to leave the house. We have to leave. Here comes my deep breath."
Don't expect immediate reward like kid suddenly complying. Won't reliably happen until boundaries set over and over. Kids test rules, not taking advantage. Pick up screaming child—two of three of Dr. Becky's kids would scream and cry. Don't think "I'm not a good parent." Pilot analogy: Pilot makes emergency landing despite complaints, not based on consensus. Passengers feel safe knowing leader acts on available info. Even complaining, grateful deep down.
When setting true boundary, especially new, kid will tantrum and protest. See tantrum as sign of successful boundary, not failure. Change relationship with tantrum—grateful, "this is going according to plan," makes moment easier.
People want leaders in parenting and work, not endless consensus or voting. Two things true: Time for consensus, but leader has experience, insight, judgment, access to info others don't. In parenting, overcorrected toward consensus.
Feels good to say: "I took in everything you said. Your voices matter. I want to share decision I've made with all info I have. Might not make sense now. Come talk separately. I have conviction this is next experiment."
Drawn to people you can locate—know what they feel, their POV. Love people you can locate even if disagree, more than mirrors. Learned a lot from pushback in stressful work environments. Leader you can locate says: "This might not be what you want. I believe this is best decision. We're strong team to work toward that." Very holding, more often than realized.
Human brain seeks leader. Rarely thank them, but in hard moments like out-of-control party, act of love is picking up and carrying out to prevent self-destruction. Kid might protest "I'm fine," later wonder why allowed bad decision.
Teenager in first session shows cutting scars, been doing for two years. First therapist ever. Parents tried two years ago, but she refused: "You think I'm the messed up one? We'll lie and waste money." After silence, she said: "Can you believe they let me make that decision?" Felt betrayed, not cared for.
At worst moments, speak fears not wishes. Not in good place for good decisions. Don't want punishment, but act of love sometimes to override.
Script for teen refusing therapy: "I'm driving you every Thursday. Whatever you do in room—lie, silent—not on me. My job is decisions good for you, even if unhappy. That's how much I care."
Parents who did it: Kids needed it on some level. Workplace equivalent in turbulence: "I've heard all. Here's what we're doing. Not complete conviction, but put it together, feel good about direction. Reassess in month. Let's go team."
People take what they can get until told otherwise, like slacking employee wondering when caught.
Broadway show Punch (true story): Guy punches man at bar, man dies, meets parents post-incarceration. Parents ask: "What will you do with your life now?" Nobody ever asked or believed he could do anything useful—changed his life.
People/kids take space not to take advantage, but asking "Is there an adult here to help?" Kids act out more when dysregulated, no adult container for their "shellless egg" to help regulate and move forward.
People without present parents seek partners providing that structure.
Philosophy: Resilience over happiness. Don't just want kid happy—optimizing for happiness in childhood builds anxiety and fragility in adulthood. Kids learn range of experiences they can cope with, capability in situations.
Or believe only happiness feels like self, discomfort must be zeroed. Irony: In adulthood, inability to manage disappointment, jealousy overpowers happiness. Happiness from managing widest range of difficult situations—not toxic, but disappointment, jealousy, anger, feeling less than.
Generations optimizing for kids' happiness. Kid: "I'm only one who can't read." Parent: "Not true, you're good at soccer/chess." Can't tolerate kid's upset. Kids learn to tolerate only feelings parents tolerate. If parent can't, kid thinks unmanageable—worsens in adulthood.
Hard experiences in youth wire for resilience and later happiness. Support without "no big deal" or fixing: Help see capable. Whole world between.
Work translation: OK to upset people long-term better. Kim Scott Radical Candor story: Employee poor performance, avoided feedback to not upset, fired after 9 months. He: "Why didn't you tell me?"
Feels like not hurting feelings, but hurts worse later. Childhood wires brain blueprint/factory settings. Work relationships: First months build foundation. Optimizing early comfort makes fragile building. 6 months in, first critical feedback feels like butterflies/rainbows shattered.
Not day one dump wrongs, but build resilient culture: People say "this hard, I can do hard," not "hard, someone at fault, should be easier."
Formula for anxiety/struggle: I believe you + I believe in you.
Misunderstood anxiety: Do "I believe you" ("This hard project, never done before, makes sense nervous"), forget "I believe in you."
Examples:
- "I'd be nervous if you weren't nervous. Of course nervous, big test. I'd feel same. Reason you can take project: Know you can figure out. Here to help. Yes hard, you can work through. Feel proud at end. Won't take away that feeling—propels future."
- Kid whining puzzle: "Right, hard puzzle, makes sense frustrated. All feel frustrated wanting to do but can't yet. Take break, breath. Won't do for you: No better feeling than progressing/completing what thought impossible. Won't take that from you."
Mindful not taking capability feelings away—build world of capable adults.
Works for adults too, e.g., with wife: "I believe you feel this even if I don't know why/wouldn't. Makes sense. You're smart, you'll figure out." She: "What did you just do? Felt good."
Visual: Struggling person in hole, can't see out (why struggling). Relational species needs trusted person with one foot in hole (I believe you: "Really don't want soccer after losing starting spot, first practice sucks") + one foot out (I believe in you: "You're going. Not fun, embarrassed, hate sideline, but survive. Hug, proud after.").
Deep down, all seek to be believed.
Proudest moment with child: "Maybe I'm proudest of you that moment even more than when you scored the goal last game cuz that's the hard stuff that's going to help you in life and we're going to get through it together."
Powerful self-reflection: Think about what end of the spectrum you're on—I believe you (validating feelings) or I believe in you (encouraging capability). No morality, just insight for growth.
Examples:
- Prefer "Come on, it's no big deal, you can do it" (I believe in you)? Try focusing on I believe you.
- Lead with I believe you but sometimes go into the hole with someone? Experiment with the other.
"See a more capable version of them than they can see in the moment. Doing those two things at once is like it's magic."
Useful with kids, partners, work. Framework helps in practice, even if hard. Specific phrasing is great; don't need exact words.
First Instagram post: February 28th, 2020, two weeks before NYC shutdown. No business intent—felt compelled to share ideas, like "vomiting them out" for relief.
Pandemic response: Live workshops because carousels weren't enough. Community formed around ideas, healing, value systems.
Community demand: Parents said, "Dr. Becky, I feel like you're doing parent school." Analogy: People invest in gardening school, cooking, Greek history more than parenting.
Critique of instinct: Parenting glorifies instinct alone, especially maternal instinct—gaslighting parents. Instinct = how we were parented. Tantrums or lies trigger unhelpful reactions.
"If I'm parenting by instinct, do you want to know what I'm gonna do when my kid has a tantrum or when my kid lies in my face? It's not going to be pretty."
Modern solution: Easy phone access, AI, human interaction to shorten spirals after hard moments, improve mental health.
Co-founder (psychologist, long-time friend) and team. Podcast/Instagram = flags/tips. Core: framework and approach vs. whack-a-mole parenting.
App: Modern, alive, personalized, tech-informed. Closes gap between ideal and actual parenting. Tools + community in your pocket.
What users get:
- Tell what's going on; get understanding + action (insight + capability) in 5 minutes.
- AI chatbot (Dr. Gigi/GG): In-moment help, theme spotting, proactive suggestions.
- Live events (2-3/month by Dr. Becky), trained coaches for support sessions (unlimited for deeply feeling kids).
- Active, expert-driven parent community.
"We need to learn how to set boundaries. We needed to learn how to stay connected to our kid without murdering ourselves... better communication if we're in a partnership... repair... why we get so activated."
Allergic to ideas without action. AI closes gap: Vomits ideas into visuals (UX, email flows) rapidly.
Examples: Figma Make for onboarding/abandoned cart flows. Not attached to output—prototypes for team feedback.
Prompting tip: Vomit all thoughts first (opposite of neat packaging, especially for women conditioned otherwise). Refine later. Shows team this process.
Other tools: Replet, Lovable, Claude, ChatGPT.
Team: 65 people, profitable. Raised money couple years ago for big vision (Disney-type ecosystem from IP/story/feeling).
Empire: Book, podcast, app, community. Second children's book: February 2026, pre-order now—Leave Me Alone, a Good Inside story about deeply feeling kids.
Deeply feeling kids: Misunderstood (dramatic, oppositional). Fear being too much, not loss of control. Push away when needing connection, confirming fears. Book helps kids see themselves; app for parents.
Title insight: "Leave me alone" screamed when out of control—deepest fear, not wish. Resonates for partners/work too.
Forever learners at work forget it with kids. Don't say "It is the way it is"—apply growth: Learn, repair, try new.
"I'm never going to be perfect is creepy but I can grow... more addicted to growing and learning than being right."
Parenting as skills, not natural instinct—hopeful. Repairing feels awkward if no model in lineage.
Actionable question for kids: "If I could do one thing different this week to be a better parent to you, what would it be?" (360-degree review).
- Kids may say hurtful things (e.g., "Be on your phone less")—receive it.
- Any answer = window into their world.
- Listen as pilot (don't open cockpit door).
- Respond: Explore feeling, hold boundary if needed.
Improves manager rapport too. Leads to better kid behavior rest of week.
Books recommended:
- The Power of Moments
- Messy Middle
- Creativity Inc.
Recent movie/TV:
- Secrets We Keep (Netflix, recommended by product leader).
- K-pop Demon Hunters—wrote guide for deep kid moments.
Recent product: Liberty puzzles (thick wooden, hand-cut, tricky—no obvious edges). Forces monotasking, grounding. Fun with kids/husband at night.
Life motto: "This feels hard because it is hard, not because I'm doing something wrong." Grounds in parenting/work.
Kid obsessed with Manora puzzle (Spanish: "¡Me encantan los puzzles!"), redoes bedtime.
Building a product and company as a non-product person, a key surprise is that a company is just people. Coming from private practice in therapy, skills in understanding people are remarkably useful as a leader. There are many things a leader can't do, such as financial modeling or data analytics, but strong people can handle those. The skill of attempting to understand people is a surprisingly but retrospectively obvious strong leadership skill.
Dr. Becky, this was incredible. It's an honor to have you on the podcast. Listeners can find you at goodinside.com for products, books, and newsletter. Start with the newsletter if curious.
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