Joe Rogan Experience #2473 - Bill Thompson
In a Nutshell
Bill Thompson, a former military cyber/intel expert, gifts Joe Rogan a custom pre-1840s knife from his rendezvous camping roots, shares his path from ADHD trailer kid to elite signals/comms intel operator in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Philippines against Abu Sayyaf, and critiques modern ills like absent male rites of passage, divorce culture, woke military DEI undermining meritocracy, government fraud bloating GDP, and centralized federal power via 17th Amendment eroding state autonomy. He advocates engineering-minded conservatism—measure outcomes not intentions, reject ideological labels, performance-tie liberal gov pay, repeal unconstitutional overreaches—and favors open-source Android (GrapheneOS) over Apple for phone security trade-offs against nation-state hacks like Pegasus. AI lacks true consciousness (just math projecting human data, per Penrose ORCH-OR), enabling his app Spartan Forge for efficient, freedom-focused hunting to get families outdoors.
These notes were generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Bill Thompson gives Joe Rogan a custom knife with a larger explanatory reason. His father died when he was five, and he and his brother grew up attending rendevous events introduced by their stepfather.
Rendevous are camping events where everything in camp must be pre-1840, no modern conveniences like refrigerators. Closest to Civil War reenactments but focused on fur trapping era (end of Jeremiah Johnson time, peak fur trapping). Participants dress as American revolutionaries, mountain men, or Indians. Thompson and brother dressed as mountain men. Learned skills like brain tanning hides, traditional archery.
Every animal has exactly the amount of brain needed to tan its hide. Take brain out, grind it, mix with water. Clean and scrape hide, stretch over dull shovel, soak in brain mixture, repeat. Breaks down leather naturally for soft feel, possibly due to fat content.
Knife handle from one black bear jaw split in half (bear killed by Thompson in Canada, 2017, his biggest black bear). Irish linen threading. Blade from 1860 knife, rusted, ground down by brother (dated 1860-1890 by pitting, hilt, steel type). Sheath: porcupine quill beadwork, buffalo brain tan backing, beaver tail front, horse and turkey hair sides, bear teeth from same bear. Could drop in 1840 and pass as made yesterday. Made as unique gift since money couldn't buy it; brother Aaron helped.
Fits Rogan's hand perfectly (educated guess on length). Not practical for gutting elk, but good for last stand against zombies.
Last 1-3 weeks. Food brought in coolers inside lodges (e.g., 20ft tepee), as ice boxes existed then (buried food, dried pemmican common). Jured southerns (invite-only, stricter pre-1840, everything mule-packed to remote sites like Big Horns; inspect stitching). Hunt in season with traditional archery. Good for kids: detach from internet, campfire songs, learn traditional skills. Eccentric community run by history teachers (e.g., from Berkeley). Last one last year with brother and son; has war shirt made by deployed friend's half-Native grandfather (Ojibwe/Chippewa).
Showers in some camps (pallets, hooters/latrines). No civilians, not like Renaissance fair. Cook over open fire, forget world/news after a week, no phone. Bring meat in cooler. Cooking classes (Dutch oven recipes). Night gambling in huge 100ft square lodges (mares) with card dealers, cigars. 60% use camp names.
Thompson's camp name: Talks a Lot (Soo-ee, christened at 13-14 in Big Horns). Kid with bad ADHD, low-level Asperger's, class rascal. Highlights missing coming-of-age rites for young men to mark manhood.
Society lacks structure for young men to become men; men act childish till 45-60. Women face nature's impositions (fertility, security). Men without rites/children risk perpetual childhood, death (no kids=dead forever, or diabetes in basement). Military was turning point for Thompson (standard, accountability; father died at 5, stepfather abusive, met mentor Steve at 13-14). Ancient cultures/religions have official manhood rites; without, men dwindle into childhood. Having 4 kids shifted focus from self to dependents, primal responsibility.
80s/early 90s divorce culture normalized easy divorce, destructive to kids (data clear: single/no parent homes, abusive stepparents highest abuse vector). Grew up single mom home post-father's death; stepfather abusive to brother, mother left. Every family unique but don't elevate broken families to unified level. 40s-60s no divorce (Hooke's law overcorrection by boomers).
Humans overcorrect (one destructive extreme to another). Conservative due to slow, pragmatic change; social experiments rarely predict outcomes, often inverse. Federalism: let states experiment (e.g., California crazy with homelessness, take good parts like coffee/art, solve bad). Founders intended slow change, adopt best.
Lack of respect for discipline (associated with conservatism: hard work, no complaints, deal with your hand). Conservatives emphasize get to work, no crying. Empathy turns to suicidal empathy, letting people wallow/excuses (e.g., California crime/homelessness). Imposers feel good weaponizing others' plights without repercussions. Legislators/think tanks impose rules, give pittance from others to feel benevolent. Giant part of government problems.
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Liberal governments should get paid based on whether the city does better or worse financially than when they were in office. If their policies lead to greater domestic production of goods and services, GDP improves, real estate sales increase, median income rises, and homelessness decreases, they should get paid more. If homelessness goes up, crime increases, destruction rises, assaults and home invasions multiply, they should get paid less because they're doing a shitty job. This would lead them to impose laws that make society safer, healthier, and better.
Yeah. and then they would just inevitably change the ways that we track and measure those things and pay themselves more.
They shouldn't have the opportunity to do that, requiring independent oversight.
Fraud accounts for a giant percentage of GDP. Eliminating hundreds of billions in fraud would lower GDP by reducing money in circulation. Job growth announcements like adding 200,000 jobs don't specify quality—are they government jobs? Government is a giant percentage of GDP, way bigger than it should be, with many being waste.
Doge uncovered fraudulent charitable organizations acting as money laundering operations, like California's homeless spending: $24 billion spent, untrackable, audits vetoed by government, yet homelessness increased. This feeds a homeless industrial complex that aids GDP.
In the military, advising a colonel and two-star general on offensive cyber development, systems incentivize organizational growth and budget execution over mission output. A field-grade officer was dressed down at the Pentagon for not spending $300 million in overseas contingent operations funds, as unspent money lowers next year's budget.
Instead of tying pay to mission achievements—like achieving effects from the National Intelligence Priority Framework and saving 25%—focus is on spending all allocated funds. Officers have been fired for this. Bureaucracies exist to grow, explaining $39 trillion debt plus $150 trillion unfunded liabilities (promised money for next 30 years).
Speaker is liberal with family (communist-like protection, providing needs and structure), supportive in community (helps out of pocket), non-judgmental on private lives as long as no one is hurt and consenting adults are involved. Produces conservatism at higher levels due to engineering mindset. Rejects labels like Republican, Democrat, leftist, rightist, classical liberal—they break down at some analysis level.
Ideologies force predetermined thinking, pigeonholing people into unjustifiable positions like trans women in sports or loving Ukraine's borders while hating America's. Defining oneself by ideology closes doors to other sides' productive ideas and makes one a propaganda tool, predictable and unentertaining.
Fear of social ostracization keeps people in illogical narratives like open borders, even against their interests.
Trump fits a pattern of pragmatic outsiders/saviors needed for corrupt systems: wouldn't invite to dinner or church, but essential to reset. Examples:
- The Magnificent Seven: Fix corrupt western town, then leave (remade with Chris Pratt and Denzel Washington).
- Wolverine: Hits on Cyclops's wife, chops off heads, but needed against Galactus.
- Patton: Married cousin (third or fourth), slapped soldiers with shell shock/tuberculosis, dressed eccentrically with ivory pistols, vital at Battle of the Bulge; Germans saw him as mythic.
- Petraeus: Outsider in Iraq 2006 surge, asked probing questions; later CIA head, ousted over affair with biographer.
Anti-heroes never end well: killed or defamed (Magnificent Seven die in next town, Patton dies in jeep accident, Wolverine survives in Hulk-ruled wasteland).
Trump: pragmatic (e.g., defended tax loopholes used by Hillary's donors), outsider to upend system. Grades him C+ or B-, better than Biden. Excited three years ago for his anti-institutional stance.
Under Biden, military pushed books like White Rage, claiming white men have inescapable implicit bias and systemic racism. But 80% combat deaths were white guys from Midwest farms, fighting unnecessary wars like Iraq.
Race discussions are disgusting; evaluates individuals, not groups. Ketanji Brown Jackson's appointment as historic black woman undermines merit—would turn down if elevated by skin color/gender over achievement.
Woke politics pits people against each other for control, creates eggshells, shame over immutable traits, easy rubrics (white guy bad, etc.).
Equal opportunity briefing: Intent doesn't matter, only recipient's feelings. Example: Complimenting woman's dress intending to buy for wife triggers investigation if she feels sexualized, ignoring reasonable person standard. Weaponized, ends careers over gallows humor relieving war pressure.
Can't expect sensitivity after combat; rational discussion needed, not automatic punishment. Distinction: "Where'd you get that dress for my wife?" vs. "I'd like to get you out of that dress." Compliments like "You look great" shouldn't lead to harassment claims.
Compliments like 'you look great' or 'I like your dress' are innocuous, but crossing into explicit sexual territory like 'I'd like to get you naked' changes everything. Comparing to telling a man 'great suit' and him filing a harassment complaint highlights the absurdity. 'You've trimmed up, Joe. You're looking great, Bill' would be called harassment. This mindset prevailed during the Biden administration.
In a military briefing, emphasis on reducing white people and increasing diversity labeled the accepted career program the 'old white boys network.' Requirements included speaking multiple languages, engineering degree or background, deployments, fluency, and advanced engineering, tactical, and strategic courses. This naturally selected more men, especially white men interested in engineering, who are hyper disagreeable. Speaker, a CW4 advising two-star generals and colonels, challenged this: men have more in common than differences between most women; a random black guy in the program shares more with him than a white woman. Diversity of thought is fine, but skin pigment quotas achieve nothing beyond OER bullets. Got pulled into office afterward: 'Hey chief, you can't say that in those briefings.' This was 2018 or 2019. Just being rational—more difference within groups than between; recruiting from 80% male/white volunteer pool yields majority male/white selects.
Highly functional groups require meritocracy; anything else threatens national security by denigrating lethality. Army's role: deter war through superior fighting and technology; if deterrence fails, win. Military must resemble the playground guy you don't mess with.
Founders, mostly slaveholders, built Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration knowing it would lead to acknowledging slaves as people; Civil War saw a million white men die to realize this. Scaffolding was there despite zeitgeist; Federalist Papers show they erected a system terminating in freedom. Can't judge past by present standards—culture evolves. Future will judge us similarly: gas-powered cars, flying, meat-eating. Can't erase Joe Rogan Experience from archives for driving gas car.
You're a genuinely curious person saying things outside the zeitgeist, refusing to apologize, updating systems through dialogue.
Free open dialogue lets bad ideas die instead of people acting them out.
Free hippie liberals now dictate words and borders. Speaker is a 1996 Bill Clinton Democrat: lowering debt, working with Newt Gingrich, securing borders, accessible work/education. Clinton balanced budget, left surplus. Labels fail—Clinton fits right by today's standards. Hillary 2008: hardcore border—convicted criminals out, stiff penalties, learn English, get in line. Obama 2012 similar; deported more than Trump.
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Always update systems via conversation, but core principles steadfast: for individual, truth, measure by outcomes not intentions, evaluate scaling. Live by this into 90s. Last 7-8 years prioritizing truth opened world—judge individuals, simple rubric from Christ's teachings 2000 years ago. Try 3 months: feel better about self, world, people; might hate government more, but not paying attention if you don't.
Started in signals intelligence: radars, electronic emanations, mapping for air support (e.g., man-packable SA-7, SA-10) to avoid pilots getting shot. Iraq war knocked out SAMs quickly, shifted to communications intelligence: cell phones, push-to-talk, repeaters, long-haul/terrestrial/extraterrestrial (satellites) networks. Informed common operating picture for commanders—where bad guys are, what doing/saying. Passive/active analysis mitigated risk (2008-ish).
Phones smartened (iPhone): adversaries had pocket computers. Army built computer network operations MOS—offensive/defensive cyber. Speaker at ground floor. Ethical hacking (lawyer term) with US backing. Operations 2006-2017: war driving, WiFi endpoints, cell forensics post-raid for intel. Passive monitoring or active exploits (e.g., unpatched routers, zero-days) to feed bad info or mitigate risk. Force multiplier with human intelligence for overt/clandestine ops.
Deployments: Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa/Northern Africa, southern Philippines (combat 2007+).
Abu Sayyaf Group, Jemaah Islamiyah—terrorists traveling Pakistan/Afghanistan, anti-Christian ops in Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao (ARMM, Zamboanga south to Sulu/Hoalo Island). Combat ops 7-10 years. First deployment 2007 to tactical MI battalion attached 1st Special Forces Group. Counterinsurgency; guys died.
Targeted Jamaal PCH (or Insulon Haplan)—arrested outside bin Laden compound day after killed; trained there. USS Cole bombing linked. Northern Philippines (Manila) Christian; south ARMM terrorists. Debriefed local leaders (bonger eyes?) on outposts for intel. Every place beautiful. Insane number/spread of islands.
Beautiful beaches, lush jungles, best swimming water, and nicest people in the Philippines. Filipino people are some of Bill Thompson's favorite. Worked with scout rangers (special forces), ride-or-die guys. At the range, showed them techniques; they'd say things like "so-and-so said this about you last weekend, I could kill them," but brushed it off. Fun fact: some of the best pool players on earth are Filipino. People fantastic despite bombings of Christian churches. Conducted counterintelligence operations, intelligence collection to inform battle picture. Targets had direct links to Osama bin Laden.
Right after operations, Pattpat PateK (P A T T P A T E K) arrested outside Osama bin Laden's compound; they chased him in Philippines thinking he was still there. Killed Albadar Perod.
Bill emphasizes he was not a "cool guy" (door-kicker); dressed like one sometimes, grew beard, no uniforms for years, but was a "nerd for cool guys." Pictures of himself in Holo, Afghanistan with tape around glasses, Pez dispenser, radio, collection equipment—true American nerd. Pointed out doors from safe Humvee, eating MRE, while guys like Andy Stump or Tim Kennedy (gorillas) kicked them in. Or from airplane above.
Born in North Dakota, single mother after leaving first guy, trailer house in Cavalier, North Dakota. Horrible student, no options. Joe notes he's smart but was horrible student; Bill calls himself curious, not smart.
Scholastic book orders had coil radio kit with earpiece, no battery—powered by electromagnetic radiation hitting coil, amplifying to earpiece for HF/VHF radio chatter. Added larger antenna, auxiliary pieces. Mother let him get it; they cleaned houses (she was waitress). Lawyer Phil Culp gave him old 286SX IBM computer from basement (had new 486). Started computer networking: modding 286 to act like 386, run Windows, update memory.
In Edinburgh, North Dakota, Jeff Munzen ran computer store in basement of old general store; Bill asked questions on RAM, storage, forcing Windows 3.1 GUI vs. command line.
Attention issues (ADHD); could hyperfocus 2-3 days on problems without sleep. Joe: ADHD is superpower, keeps you from boring things. Bill agrees, has theory. Teacher Connie Trenbeth (English/literature) kept him after class: knew his dad/uncles (smart, great uncle has engineering wing named after him in western North Dakota). Said he was wasting life—disrupting class, dominating conversations—but wrote one great paper on interest topic. He wasn't hearing it; CPU always high, multitasking even now.
Joined to be military policeman (would hate) or gate guard; all turned infantry. Forgot driver's license at recruiter in far Minneapolis (MEPS in Fargo? 5-6-7 hours away). Dumped girlfriend, said goodbyes, wouldn't go home. Recruiter pivoted: high ASVAB general technical score (machines/objects) fit intel job on radars. Briefed in SCIF (secure compartmented information facility); James Bond music in head. Signed up at 16 (delayed entry), turning 17 December, left before 18th birthday post-high school. Mother signed waiver, happy to get him out of trailer. Connects forgetting license to being on JRE today.
Jamie shows crystal radio (Slinky brand, coil radio with earpiece, no battery). Uses crystal diode. Rocket radio attached to phone cable, picks up power from radio tower. Stronger signal = better. AM travels farther (bass analogy: hear bass from next door party, not treble—lower frequency). FM sounds better (more info, quicker modulation) but shorter range. VLF from subs travels underwater far, low info; VHF/UHF more modulation/info.
Trained military on cell phones, frequencies, GSN networks. Analogy: party bass vs. treble dispersal.
Can't stay ahead; free market innovation faster than exploitation. Pegasus: persistent implant on cell phones, initially click-based, evolved zero-click. Not in usual spots (e.g., app layer binary); stored unusually (forensics papers detail). Allowed full phone ownership. Bill dreamed of such implants; used zero-day exploits on unpatched phones. Phone makers red-team, patch (e.g., close open ports on routers).
Administration removing Chinese tech/routers. PLA botnet on unpatched routers targeting government/business near critical infrastructure (power, energy, banking) to cause trouble.
Banned Huawei, ZTE. Huawei Porsche-design Android phone had best camera/battery; banned due built-in access/third-party input on routers/network devices (unaware buyers). In universities, military, cell towers. Bill did forensic exploitation.
Mobile/media forensics: like CSI on phones/computers—what deleted, used for. 2015 Afghanistan deployment: largest operations, treasure troves of phones/computers. Team derived intel (multi-point analysis), tasked follow-ons instantly. Active media forensics: dump binary, ones/zeros analysis. Org analyzed Osama bin Laden media—x-rayed, reconstructed, millions spent.
Huawei/ZTE: some implanted for foreign access; others unpatched backdoors (root access). In Africa, Chinese gave infrastructure for resources/intel. Bill free-market but avoids them.
Consumer risk: access to high-value targets (e.g., Joe Rogan talking to president). Build network of contacts, data, deep dives.
Getting all of that data and constructing an analyst notebook outline of who's talking to whom, who to implant. It's for business as well. They want this in the hands of business leaders for IP, in soldiers' hands for deployment dates, who's going where. They want it in routers, the most unpatched technology. Routers had to be manually updated, leaving potential exploits. Access home routers, BGP routers moving internet data, or microwave terminals on cell phones sending information. If those have Chinese parts in CPU or physical infrastructure, they provide direct access to information passed on those terminals. This gives system-level, root-level access through machinery, communication devices, routers to know everything about an enemy.
Wow.
As far as today's technology, using an Android phone. Is there a more secure phone or platform?
It depends, from Thomas Sowell: there are no answers, only trade-offs. Who are you? What are you doing with your phone? For average citizens, phones today are pretty secure, especially versus a few years ago. For reporters, do you trust the government and Apple? If yes, Apple's best bet with lockdown mode or reporter mode to encrypt devices, chatter, tunnel, RF coming out.
What is lockdown mode?
Lockdown mode is extreme optional protection for those targeted by sophisticated cyberattacks. iPhone functions are limited: apps, websites, features strictly limited, some unavailable. Advised high-risk source meets, like debriefing a spy, to use lockdown mode for texting and calling only.
Can you still send iMessages?
You can text and call, but other things you can't do.
Meta announced no longer encrypting Instagram DMs. People upset, stopping use. Others can read your stuff now, whether Meta or who.
Why don't you trust Apple?
Same reason I don't trust Meta.
Meta blamed users for not opting into encryption. Experts fear first major domino for end-to-end encryption worldwide. Meta: very few opt for end-to-end encrypted DMs, removing option. Use WhatsApp instead, but WhatsApp is squirrely too. All are squirrely.
Apple and Meta building neural networks. Humans (and some animals) only ones projecting consciousness, needed to train neural networks. Spent time in military on AI in 2011-2012, mapping dynamic networks, pragmatic uses before large language models or convolutional neural networks.
Free photo storage from Google, Meta, Instagram: they want faces to train neural networks. Pay for compute and storage to use data. If product's free, you're the product. Google Drive free gig: uses photos for facial recognition.
What if paying for Google Drive?
Check terms of service with neural network: upload 40-page document, understand data usage. Great use of large language models.
Apple, Meta: you are more the product. Building hyper-competent AIs needs training data and compute. Meta building nuclear facility for power. To build hyperrealistic Joe Rogan AI videos, need every picture, angle, squint for training.
Free apps: you're the product. They want typing patterns, speech, thinking, political biases, photos. Not nation-state, but to build best AI products, big money there. Pokémon Go players built 30 billion photo map for training robots to deliver pizza.
As media forensics, computer network operations, AI trainer: that's precisely what they do.
Difference between Apple and Android?
Android does same as Google, but can root or install custom OS like GrapheneOS. Sacrifice for company Spartan Forge: became public face, started social media, cloud uploads to sell product, not data.
Spartan Forge: product is product, not people. Won't sell 2 million emails for half million dollars to other companies for marketing.
Android publishes AOSP (Android Open Source Project) framework: nuts and bolts public. Apple doesn't publish. Can dump binary, create E01 file, examine if phone acting right or has persistent implant. Can't with Apple; must trust them.
Available for average consumer?
Large language models help dump phone. Buy tools like Cellebrite (Israeli-owned, prefer American), forensic toolkit. Physical product to dump phone.
For average person: download software, jack phone in, carve binary, create one-to-one emulation. Examine apps, binary, executable code. Compare to AOSP kernel; spot weird code. Use neural network like Perplexity to analyze intent.
Prompt to Perplexity: friend carved E01 file, code doesn't match Android system. Dump code here? Yes, paste suspicious code for line-by-line explanation, malicious check. Redact private data. Static analysis, not execution.
Can do forensic on Apple, but not to Android level due to open source. Nation-states operate at low kernel levels, missed by standard forensics—like fingerprint under couch.
Standard Android vs GrapheneOS: more control over ecosystem. Use LLM to understand what's running. Control background services: prevent hot-micing, camera photos, listening for ads.
Functionality not there; designed for standard Android.
Google Pixel targeted because commonly rooted, easy with LLM walkthrough. Not complicated, but don't do on valued phone first—unlock bootloader (starting engine). Not all Androids; Pixels, older Galaxy S7/S10 yes. Samsung locks down newer ones like Galaxy Fold.
Stopped 3 years ago: no national security work, no exploits, need to sell product, employees handle Instagram/email.
It wasn't pragmatic anymore to keep doing that and I had to give up that part. Forge your app work run on Graphene. Yeah, well it could, it would. You have to sideload the app but a large language model could walk you through doing that. We haven't gotten to that level. Does it make sense here that this is easier because Google makes it easier? Yeah, he was just asking me why they make it easier and I don't know that answer. The process is officially supported in the Android settings under developer options, allowing users to toggle OEM unlocking, simple fastboot method. Pixels use standard fastboot commands that work consistently across all models to unlock the bootloader accessibility.
Android open source project exists. It would stand to reason that you would want a way for people interacting with that code, rewriting it, making the code better and offering bug bounties so you can tell Android you've got a critical flaw in your system architecture and they'll pay you 20 grand for that. I've got friends who do that.
We talked about Eric Prince's phone, which is the narrative that it is an unhackable phone. Eric's a wonderful guy and the principles he used for the first instantiation of that phone are correct: if you're security focused, get away from big conglomerates because none of your data is private. An incorrect principle is using a PKI subsystem that relies on Microsoft—you're not in control of the PKI certificate signing and Microsoft could cause problems. If building on the Android open source project, the code is examinable by the public. You're relying on Android to publish updates. You might harden it more, but as long as the code is out there, it can be mucked with. As long as people interact with the device and type and see what they're typing, a phone will have Swiss cheese. When people say something is unhackable, that's not true.
If they had said it's hackable as any phone is hackable because by virtue of interacting with it, it's hackable. Look at TikTok terms of service—they own your phone. By interacting with the phone, seeing what you're doing, typing passwords, with those terms, you could put a keylogger in and know your Signal password or pin. You're going to China, stopped in secondary, CCTV sees you unlock your phone. Now they know how to unlock it, lock you up at customs in China or Canada, separate you from your phone. They've seen you unlock it, use Nase, FTK, or Cellebrite to dump your phone. Built on Android open source project is good, but don't call it totally unhackable—a guy like me needs a week or two to find the hole in this Swiss cheese.
Is it far better than a Google phone with standard firmware or an Apple phone? Don't know about Apple—they monetize people using data people don't know is used, even in 40-page terms of service. To answer safest phone: what are you using it for, who you are, what you're doing in the world.
For you, take a Raspberry Pi, run WireGuard on your phone, route all internet traffic through a home terminal at your house through Raspberry Pi using WireGuard, a very good VPN. If you trust Apple, continue using it. If not, use Android, Pixel with Graphene, Signal, relatively safe. If I'm a nation state actor, I can create circumstances to access your stuff. You can always create circumstances to get somebody's stuff, especially nation state.
Pegasus 2 is a non-click exploit—all they need is your number. Make yourself a difficult target. For password reset questions, don't answer honestly—write down in a physical journal how you answered. These added layers of protection like picture popups (click pictures with traffic light) might be for security but also train neural networks—you're a product educating on traffic lights and instantiations.
Separate causality, intention, outcomes—companies might want greatest AI, but issuing 40-page terms on $2,000 device is unethical. Eric Prince was right to offramp from big things. Worried about individual rights with uneducated class, loss of individual autonomy.
Large language models are great but not foundation of learning—like learning addition on paper before calculator. Understand research, cite sources, conduct analysis before neural networks. We've eroded the American experiment's foundation, given up individual rights for security. Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Patriot Act collected on Americans. Biden-Obama administration had massive vacuum cleaner, knew what it vacuumed, collected and stored in database in case needed for narrative or to get rid of inconvenient people—anti-American rights.
17th Amendment: Originally, state legislators and governor appointed senators to protect state rights at federal level, not individuals or embolden federal government. Founders wanted states as thought experiments—California can go nuts without impacting Texas.
House of Representatives for crazy ideas, petulant children. Senators between House and President to filter: "Here's a good idea, rest is crazy." State legislators would appoint someone representing state principles, e.g., say no to Obamacare to protect state.
17th Amendment made Senate redundant with House—both popular vote. In North Dakota, 85% population in Fargo/Grand Forks (universities, crazy ideas), rest agriculture. Legislators elect senator representing whole state, protecting western counties, agriculture, small businesses, families.
17th Amendment under Woodrow Wilson usurped Constitution. Now senators campaign in population centers, repeat ideas to win vote, ignore rest of state. DNC/RNC fund compliant candidates with $300 million, not constitutional conservatives.
Under state architecture, legislators ensure whole-state representation. Created redundant House, states no longer protected federally. Power sucked to federal government—Obamacare, Patriot Act, war resolutions passed that states wouldn't.
"We need to get money out of politics." No, get power out of politics. Power used to be at state/local for thought experiments, pluck best ideas. Federal wants more budget/spending. Interest groups lobby federal, not states. Politicians go from $300k to $30M.
None of federal powers explicit in Constitution (light bulbs, toilets, roads, medical care)—use commerce clause for Obamacare. Want competing states: Texas great healthcare, North Dakota adopts.
To change state healthcare: run for office, support candidate, or move. Centralized federal, individuals powerless. Usurpation of state/individual autonomy—founders wanted states for thought experiments (Hobbes, Locke, Montesquieu).
Popular vote for president: campaign New York/LA. Pure democracy: 51% rules 49%—founders avoided. Electoral college, state senate, house represent all government levels beautifully.
Marbury v. Madison allowed Supreme Court judicial review—not in Constitution. Supreme Court grants itself power via writs of mandamus. Old system: unconstitutional law goes to Supreme Court, they wouldn't rule.
Supreme Court would rule in favor of the person, declaring actions against the Constitution, but the government would keep arresting people, forcing repeated appeals. The core of the American experiment places the value of the individual at the top of the hierarchy, allowing people to flourish. In 250 years, America achieved more than any society in thousands of years. Everything tends toward disorder and centralized power, but the framework existed—yet people were willing participants in their own demise. Now there's no individual autonomy, like a guy not being able to smoke weed on the weekend. Centralized authority and power enable this. There would be no problem with money in politics if the federal government had only the powers outlined in the Constitution.
I think that's very well said and I could have never said it the way you said it and I think there's a lot to absorb here.
Joe praises Bill's thoroughness, joking about his 'touch of the tism' as a superpower like ADHD. They agree to wrap up but plan to do it again, as they didn't cover AI. Bill has an anti-pattern view on AI similar to his earlier points. Jensen Huang from Nvidia recently declared we've reached AGI (Artificial General Intelligence), but Bill strongly disagrees.
Neural networks are mathematical functions resting on waiting neurons based on training data and applying power to train models—purely mathematic with no sense of knowing. References Roger Penrose's ORCH-OR (orchestrated objective reduction) and how the mind works through fleets of consciousness and shimmers around microtubules, enabling conscious thought. AI is excellent at consciousness projection but lacks actual consciousness or knowing because it has no system of values. Even instilling values would still be projection.
Bill shares a personal story: He bought back his dad's cabin (dad died when he was five) and learned about his father's thoroughness by measuring and cutting things on the walls. This was consciousness projection allowing him to reexperience and understand his father better than if he were alive.
AI is projected consciousness—very good but equivalent to a calculator. Given enough time, a calculator with a rule book could produce the same answers as a neural network (e.g., a Perplexity query might take a million years). No consciousness, knowing, or AGI presence—relies entirely on training data fed by human consciousness projection (like captures or uploading photos to Google Drive). It's really fancy clever math. Bill has trained these networks for over a dozen years.
Spartanforge.ai is built under the rubric of individual freedom: getting people outdoors, hunting, experiencing nature, providing for families. Bill's best day is when his kids eat backstrap from an animal he took. The app enables this paradoxically by helping conserve time, ecout, and learn before going out. He has three other companies but focuses on Spartan Forge, with more features coming over the summer. Joe calls it an awesome app. Bill answers all Instagram DMs (spends two hours every morning). Check it out to support and get hunting done.
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